OT: VAT

[Adrian Caspersz]

Is there VAT on luxury home delivery of uncooked food?

[Andrew]

Do you mean food delivered by a butler, or luxury food delivered by a pleb ?.

[Scott]

I think postal services are exempt but whether this extends beyond the Royal Mail I don't know. Food is I think zero rated.

[Dave Liquorice]

VAT on which element that the above covers?

Food - mostly zero rated unless considered a "luxury". Chocolate is a "luxury" so items that involve chocolate attract VAT. Plain digestive bicuits 0% VAT, chocolate digestive biscuits 20% VAT.

Some food types are considered "luxury" cake for example. Biscuits (without chocolate!) are not. Hence the long running battle about Jaffa "cakes" being a "cake" or a "biscuit".

Delivery charges are "service" so attract VAT at 20%. Pretty sure that applies even if their cost is the same as the required "stamp". There is a "service" of supplying the packaging, putting the goods in it, sticking the stamp on and taking the item to the PO or arranging for it to be collected.

[Adrian Caspersz]

The reason I ask as they seem to be premium 'farm kit ingredients in a box' delivery companies profiting from something, and before we start drowning in traffic jams caused by their drivers - I think VAT should be slapped down on the entire bill, a bit like hot Greggs pasties.

Oh...

[charles]

take-away stuff is not exempt.

[Scott]

OP is asking about uncooked food. If uncooked food not consumed on the premises counts as a take-away then then all the food purchased at a supermarket (unless cooked or eaten raw inside the supermarket) would be liable to VAT. I took away a Melton Mowbray pork pie to eat at home and I was not charged VAT.

[bert]

In article [e-mail], Scott [e-mail]> writes

Wasn't that the crux of the pastie tax? Heated pastie - vat, cold pastie

- no vat.

[Mike Humphrey]

It's slightly more complicated than that. Hot pastie straight out of the oven because they've just baked a batch, no VAT. Same pastie having gone cold, no VAT. Same pastie having gone cold then warmed up for you, VAT applies. Same pastie kept in a heated case, VAT applies. Hot pastie straight out of the oven because you asked them to bake it for you, VAT applies. However if you eat it before leaving the shop, VAT applies no matter the temperature.

If you've visited Greggs, you'll notice they exploit this to the full. They bake small batches all day so they generally have hot pastries. They'll even tell you if the food on display is hot or not. But there's no hot case, and they will never heat the pastries or cook to order.

It's the same with microwave snacks at the petrol station - if you microwave it and then buy it, VAT applies. If you buy it cold and then microwave it, no VAT (as long as you take it away before eating). You do have to pay VAT on the charge for heating it, but that's usually zero.

All this assumes that the food isn't a luxury food, which has VAT on it hot or cold. The Jaffa Cake case arose because chocolate-covered biscuits are a luxury, but chocolate-covered cakes aren't. Possibly this explains the sudden popularity of "cake bars" following the case as well.

Mike

[Scott]

Good explanation. Thanks.

[NY]

I wonder how the distinction between cakes and biscuits arose. How did someone (or some committee) decide what constitutes a luxury food?

How very convoluted the law is. I don't blame companies trying to find ways of (legally) circumventing having to charge VAT to their customers. I too thought it was a simple hot/cold distinction, and didn't realise that hot food that is kept at room temperature but which is still hot from cooking is treated differently from hot food that has gone cold and is then reheated at the customer's request.

What was the situation with Purchase Tax, the UK predecessor to VAT? Did that have any intricacies like VAT has or was it just a blanket x% on all sales? Did it have zero-rated items such as (some) food and children's clothes?

I remember when VAT was first introduced, some companies made clothes for very large "children" which would fit a small, slender adult (and which unofficially were probably aimed at those adults) ;-)

Assuming Brexit goes through, will the UK be free to set its own purchase tax arrangements, or is VAT here to stay no matter what (in EU, out of EU with negotiated deal, out of EU with no deal)?

[Andrew]

After much expensive discussion by the legal profession, they came to the conclusion that chcolate biscuits start off crisp and then gradually go soft, while cakes start off moist and then go 'crisp'.

Jaffa cakes to the latter. QED they are cakes, so no VAT.

[Scott]

I wonder how many exhibits were needed during that case !!!

[invalid]

Not many packets.

Its the way they are cooked that determines biscuit v cake.

[whisky-dave]

Because it is what they are made of regarding the actual ingredients. Made sense to me.

[Vir Campestris]

Wasn't it Marie Antoinette?

"Let them eat cake" (Qu'ils mangent de la brioche)

Andy :)

[Steve Walker]

I seem to remember that they prepared one giant one that was presented in court.

SteveW

[bert]

In article <qmac05$onp$ [e-mail], NY [e-mail] writes

PT had different rates for different goods.

UK will be free to scrap vat or to ignore or EU rules on changing vat rate and categories.

[bert]

Didn't the judge order some to be locked away for some time (3 mths?) to test this?

[Max Demian]

I thought it was just a magnified picture. (The whole argument shows up the stupidity of sin taxes.)