[OT] Surrounded by a forcefield?

[Dave Liquorice]

Quite agree. Quite a few years ago there was a quite lengthy power outage, first for a number of years, that took out the (note singular) cell site. This was at a time when mobiles where starting to be peoples only means of telephone contact, landline not required for BB because for any ADSL was (is) abismal and there is a local wireless provider. So people dumped their landlines...

Boy were people upset when their phones didn't work, I don't think many had even thought about what happens if the cell site loses power.

VAT, Tax, animal movements... HMG is moving to online only for lots of things.

[Andrew Mawson]

Animal movements can be still done off line but they make it difficult. Pig movements have been on line for over a year and the system works quite well. Sheep movements have just gone on line and the system is atrocious and difficult to navigate. But both do still have manual back up systems.

Andrew

[polygonum]

How time-critical are these things? Do you have a few hours or a few days to report livestock movements?

At some point I think we will see a major outage where lots of people will be unable to comply with regulations. HMRC have always taken the view that whatever deadline they impose, it is up to you to do things sufficiently in advance that technical issues do not provide an excuse.

[Robin]

There's a DIY opt-out! Anyone can join an appropriate church if they don't like mandatory use of online filing for corporation tax, employers' PAYE returns, VAT etc. The legislation doesn't apply if that use of electronic communications is incompatible with the beliefs of a religious society or order. The exemptions have the Brethren very much in mind. IMLE the Brethren are hardworking, polite and law-abiding men and women. And they are mostly sensible enough to pay accountants to do their tax online if it involves CT, PAYE etc. (Don't ask me to explain why it's OK to pay others to do what they won't.)

[Robin]

Can you cite anything to support their taking such a line? I ask as it contradicts umpteen statements from HMRC and practical examples. Eg their general guidance on late filing of returns[1] includes:

"Generally, a 'reasonable excuse' is when some unforeseeable or unusual event beyond your control has prevented you from filing your return on time. For example:....your computer breaks down just before or during the preparation of your online return"

[1]

[Andrew Mawson]

Well in the case of pig movements I've always done the on line movement a day or so before hand, then on the day edited the actual time of loading and departure as they happen. When I tried to do this with a sheep movement a couple of weeks ago the bally silly site wouldn't let me edit the movement, so it went through with the wrong times. I got to the abattoir and had unloaded BEFORE the stock had been loaded according to the system !!!!!!

Andrew

[tony sayer]

But what is the difference between a BT plant and a VM system?..

Can't say I've ever had a problem what I do notice is the piss poor speeds of the net elsewhere after using or 100 meg VM service:)...

[Tim Watts]

Why does it need such detail?

[Andrew Mawson]

I suppose it's all to do with traceability in the event of an outbreak of swine fever or some such disease. It also theoretically stops people doing unrecorded movements and claiming that they'd intended to do the report after the event if caught. The 'haulier' (me in most cases) has to carry a hard copy in order that the authorities can check the movement if required during the journey, though our local bobby had no idea that was a requirement despite being in a very rural environment.

Andrew

[polygonum]

Have to say, work is faster than VM. Dual 80 meg Infinity.

[polygonum]

Looks like they have softened their line. One of the earliest years that online returns were possible, there was a rather heavy-handed "tough" attitude when there were problems with their system. I had thought that continued.

[polygonum]

I can, though, see a time coming where things like making a GP appointment are are more or less forced to be on-line. Anyone having the temerity to ring up or drop in to do so will find insufficient resources available to handle their request.

[tony sayer]

We can do that now and in some ways its simpler as I can see what they are seeing and can pick and choose my time of appointment as well.

Plus I don't have to wait and be held in the phone queue;!)...

[tony sayer]

Well we could have had the 150 service but in reality I haven't seen much of an improvement in thruput speeds between the 30 and the 100

I reckon the rest of the world has to catch up as yet;)

As to infinity it does seem even more influenced by the line length than what ADSL r was but admitted the up speed is quicker, not that it matters that much to most all users..

[Tim Watts]

And at the same time, the surgery will employ more "administrators" than a similar sized surgery in the 1960s.

You see this with pharmacies - a tiny one has 3-4 people working in it round my way.

In the 70's it was run by 2 people - the pharmacist and his assistant. Sometimes just the pharmacist at quieter times.

[Tim Watts]

Oh I remember the days of filling in a paper return, walking around to the local tax office and pushing it through the letterbox. Felt pretty assured.

[polygonum]

What I have seen is that when a line becomes Infinity-enabled, the upload speed of the existing ADSL2 drops. And that has been happening sufficiently for individual users to find their email seems very slow at being sent.

[polygonum]

Though I hardly ever see a pharmacy that is open these days! Certainly I see pharmacies within supermarkets, but given our shopping habits most pharmacies are close at times we might be out and doing our shopping. (But did find that we have a novelty round here, a 24-hour pharmacy where the duty pharmacist seemed very good when we needed some eye ointment at about 22:00 the other day. I remember that Boots in Newcastle and somewhere in central London were always open but not round here in many years, if ever.)

And both I and my partner get most of our medicines from abroad (for complex reasons).

[dennis]

Ones a cable system and the other is DSL. One has shared access and the other doesn't.

[dennis]

That hasn't happened here. In fact when they enabled my cab the signal strength for up and down improved as did the upload speed.