OT: Surround Sound?

I want one, but I don't know what to look for :-)

Home Cinema? Soundbar? Surround Sound?

Google brings up so many trees I can't see the wood. I'm not sure I know what to search for.

What I want is a speaker system to plug into the TV to give better sound quality. Say you are watching Top Gear, I want to hear the car coming from the left to the right. Don't want a DVD player included, already got one, don't use it much.

Don't want massive tall speakers on stands, just little ones to sit on coffee tables, shelves etc - I know you get a bigger sub woofer thingy. Not a massive room.

I've heard you can get wireless speakers - which would be a major plus. I deffo want a remote zapper.

Any ideas on what to look for & where?

Reply to
The Medway Handyman
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It depends what you want. Some sound bars can simulate surround sound, and some of them can probably do it quite well on some programme material. Home cinema and surround sound are more or less the same thing. 5 or 7 audio channels and one subwoofer.

Do you want stereo or surround sound? In other words, do you want to hear the explosions and sound effects all round you when you're watching a movie, or are you happy about everything happening in the wall in front of you?

Best to mount them at about ear level on wall mounts. Some of the home cinema ones I've seen are very small and inconspicuous. Ideally, you should be able to see all the speakers from your listening position by turning your head.

The ideal is to have the TV in the middle of a long wall, with a speaker either side of it at about a 60 degree included angle from your listening position. Then, add a centre speaker for dialogue behind or just below the set, and a couple of satellite speakers on the back wall.

The subwoofer can go almost anywhere in the front of the room near the set, as the sound from it isn't all that directional.

How important is sound quality to you? Wireless speakers always sound worse than wired ones at the same price point. They also need a wire going to them for the power, so you might as well just run a smaller one for the signal.

You could start by nipping into somewhere like Richer Sounds and asking about home cinema sound systems. They're not as cheap as the web shops, but the staff at our local one are interested in what they sell, and I'm happy to pay for their expertise.

You may find that your TV has speaker sockets, in which case plug some better speakers in as a trial.

Reply to
John Williamson

In article , The Medway Handyman scribeth thus

A half decent pair of "bookshelf" type speakers. If the TV can drive them then fine, if not an external amp. I doubt surround would add anything if much to the overall experience as would a sub unit.....

Wireless?, avoid. Just run some half decent speaker flex. The remote should affect the audio out on the TV so you have a volume control...

Reply to
tony sayer

Just adding external speakers to a modern thin (and hence weedy sounding) TV will make a big difference. It won't necessarily be surround sound - but it will be better. If you have a home stereo in a suitable location (i.e. speakers in appropriate places in the room for the TV), feeding sound from the TV into that will achieve what you describe with a big improvement in the audio quality.

Subs can be discrete things you stuff behind the sofa or in some corner of the room. The low bass notes are not marticularly directional and contain no stereo information - so positioning is flexible.

Yes.... although appreciate there is surround sound and there is surround sound - really depends on what you want to hear, and what you are prepared to pay.

I will give you the basics on a "proper" system as if you were assembling your own - whoever you may well be happy with an out of the box packaged system, but either way its handy to know what the bits are supposed to do.

There are four stages to consider - source, decoding, amplification, speakers.

Source is what will give you the sound channels to work with in the first place. There are several different types of surround sound source. The lowest spec version may simply offer stereo sound. Typically with most stereo material there is surround sound information still encoded in it that can be extracted with a pro logic decoder. This will give you front left and right channels, a centre channel, and a mono rear effects channel (although usually fed to a pair of rear speakers). So armed with a prologic capable decoder, the normal stereo feed from a TV, a DVD player, sat box etc and you will get some surround capability. You can even get remarkably good results from a HiFi VHS player.

Next up the ladder is Dolby Digital 5.1. This gives better quality stereo rear effects channels, as well as left, right and centre. The .1 is a dedicated output for a sub woofer. Now with 5.1, the source normally does the decoding itself, so there is not usually a separate decoding step - it simply presents 6 channels of audio (either on separate analogue audio lines, or a digital interconnect of some sort), which you can amplify and use to drive speakers. A modern TV with HD capability may be able to generate 5.1 audio itself. The better DVD players can also do it as will some bluray players and sat decoders.

Decoding (when not 5,1) is normally done in a AV processor or AV amp / receiver. Most of these will be take stereo, and use prologic to get you basic surround sound from any source. Most will also be able to accept

5.1 from an external decoder and do something with it. This brings us on to amplification.

For the full surround effect you need six channels of amplification. There are two common approaches to getting them. One is an AV receiver that is designed to augment your existing stereo. Your main stereo amp and speakers handle the left and right channels. The AV receiver does the amplification for the centre and rear channels and drives those speakers itself. It also normally provides and unamplified sub output to feed an "active" sub (i.e. one with its own built in amp - which most of the serious ones will have). The other option is a full AV amp that is designed to drive all the speakers itself (except the sub possibly) and hence does not need a separate stereo amp for the main front channels.

Speakers, you need a left right an centre that match each other reasonably well in audio tone - that way as effects pan across them they sound consistent. Rears are slightly less critical. The centre speaker is important since it keeps all the dialogue anchored to the action on screen so you can still clearly hear what is going on regardless of what the effects are doing round it (they are also usually magnetically shielded - not something that matters with modern flat screen TVs, but was important for when it was sat close to a big CRT).

Subs can be used in two ways. One common solution is the satellite / combination that uses fairly feeble small speakers for all the audio channels and relies on the sub to fill in all the missing bass sections from the other speakers. (this is the budget approach used by many out of the box systems). More serious systems will use proper full range speakers for all the channels, and then the sub is there just to add an extra dimension to the sound stage. A good one will generate effects that you feel more than hear!

No real experience with wireless speakers - I presume they still need power to them, and they must each have active amplification within the speaker. Can't see that discrete running of some speaker cables should be difficult for a man of your calibre!

(as with all summaries - there are exceptions and variations in detail).

Its well worth finding a proper hifi shop with demo rooms, and asking for a demo of something - even if just so you know what is possible (it will also put into perspective the systems that are sold by the likes of Dixons to joe public)!

Reply to
John Rumm

I don't have television at all.

In general I think most people that enthuse about TV are chavs, virtually all broadcast TV being dumbed down for the masses.

I really do. Think about it.

Reply to
Frank Erskine

That's a really helpful reply.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Wright

Frank can't really be doing with this new fangled idiots lantern thingy can he now;!...

Reply to
tony sayer

Don't forget to investigate the HDMI Link protocol marketed as things like = Viera Link. In my case this means when I switch on my Sony TV, it automatic= ally switches on my Panasonic Sound system and the TV remote operates the v= olume of the sound system including the volume graphic on the screen. Altho= ugh I didn't look into this at the time, the ease of use of this, rather th= an separately having to switch things on makes it much more usable. SWMBO n= ever used to switch on the old sound amp we had but now benefits from the b= etter sound automatically.=20

I would imagine driving external speakers from the TV (mine can't) would al= so have this advantage.

John

Reply to
JohnW

Thanks John, just what i needed :-)

Happy with just in front of me.

OK. TV is in the corner at the end of a long wall, so not in the ideal place for that set up.

OK.

Ah, of course they would need power. That negates their benefit. It would be as much trouble powering some of them up as running cables.

Top quality sound isn't that important, just better than the crappy speakers on the TV. It's a 32" flat screen.

Budget would be up to £150 say.

Good tip. I've had a look online and their prices are sometimes better than the web shops. They have a store not too far away.

I'm beginning to think a sound bar would do what I want. Something like this?

formatting link

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Thanks john. I'll print this off & have a read.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Are you Plymouth Brethren by any chance?

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Doesn't like WD40 either :-)

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Have a listen, and if you like it...

Take a CD or DVD that you know well and have heard on a decent system with you to listen to.

My only concern is that there's no HDMI connection listed. only a digital co-ax or optical, so it will only be usable with a DVD or Blu-Ray player, unless your TV has a digital sound output. This seems to be a common problem, though.

If your set has speaker outputs, maybe try a couple of decent active speakers?

Reply to
John Williamson

Are you related to Mary Whitehouse?

Not having watched a particular programme, but condemning it anyway.

I take it you never read anything either for the same reason - lots of stuff published which is 'dumbed down for the masses'.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

How would I find out if my TV has a digital sound output?

I don't really watch DVD's, mainly live or (Sky) recorded programs.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Why is it people seem perfectly happy paying good money for a TV with extremely poor sound quality - like it somehow doesn't matter at the time of purchase.

Next they'll be buying one with a poor picture too - and asking about an add on to sort it...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

You don't know at the time of purchase, you assume it will be fine.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

It's been well enough publicised that the majority of modern TV sets have very poor sound. Due to being designed without reasonably sized forward facing loudspeakers. You can't change the laws of physics.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

So well publicised, I'd never heard about it.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Soundbar.

I have a Yamaha YSP-800 - had it for years.

Plug into power, plug into TV, switch on. Job done. No flipping speaker cables.

There's a thing you can do where you plug a special microphone in and leave it to "map" the room. Lots of options for different modes.

Stereo is fine. Less spacial than full surround sound... but then who wants startled by a loud bang coming from behind them? Left and right are fine for me.

Mind you that's a very early example of the technology.

Reply to
WeeBob

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