Having been in the same house for just over 30 years we're considering a move to a more "interesting" house, but many of them are grade II listed and some thatched. It would be great to hear from anyone here who has experience of listed houses. Some questions are: how restrictive is grade 2 listing? and what are the typical real world maintenance problems? ... but any info would be useful at this stage.
The problem is you must always repair back rather than rip out, and upgrade.
This makes any major maintenance relatively expensive. - 2-5 times typically
A lot depends on what *actually* is listed and on what you want to do.
If it's timber frame you may be allowed to knock out some infill in walls t o open up a room, but you probably will not be allowed to remove any of the actual timber frame itself. If it's Georgian you may be able to knock thro ugh a stud wall, between rooms, but only partially, to preserve any cornice detail, and will have to satisfy the conservation officer how you intend t o match up the floor and wall joins.
With current thinking you might be allowed to add a glass spaceship to the side (because it 'preserves the narrative' of the building) but a little mo ck-period side extension might be prohibited.
You need to check very carefully for any unauthorised works by previous own ers that have been done since listing. There is a risk you might have to re verse them.
periodproperty forum may be useful.
Owain
Additionally a lot of such buildings may also be part of a conservation area which may mean a few more restrictions/controls, and having one in a National Park involves another level of people you may have to deal with.
G.Harman
It also depends a lot on what architectural features and window frames the building has. You may find that double glazing is not permitted and new window frames have to be handmade to an exact match specification.
If there is dry rot or anything else nasty going on then you may not have a choice but to remove and replace like for like. Repair and restore is always preferred as a first approach though. The inspectors seemed to be fairly pragmatic when it was a choice between renovating sympathetically or leaving the building derelict until it fell down.
I guess thatch is slightly less problematic than obscure handmade claypan tiles in that respect. But labour costs obviously much higher. Anyone buying a grade II listed building needs to go in with their eyes and wallets open. Other things that can make life tricky are having resident bats which obviously limits when you can replace the roof.
My house might have been listed if it had not been unsympathetically extended well before the legislation came into force. Many of the other old buildings in our village are listed - one is even a grade 2* (and recently renovated to habitability at great expense). The manor house would have been grade I listed if it hadn't been demolished in the 50's.
As a concrete example they had to remove the original Victorian hexagonal tiles from the stable walls without damaging them before starting work and replace them again afterwards (as a nice feature). Seemed like a lot of faff to me but looking online they may well be incredibly rare since I can't find any published examples.
There was also a rare Arts&Crafts wooden staircase designed by William Morris that had to be dismantled and reassembled in a new position. Things like this take a lot of time and skilled craftsmen.
Fun to watch them at work if you are not paying for it.
I have 2 friends who live in listed houses. And to answer your question, put it this way - when we were recently looking at houses we automatically discounted anything listed.
But I'd hope that anyone would do those without being required to by listing.
Personally I'm on the lookout for a nice 1970s bungalow to which I can add plastic windows and those pierced concrete wall blocks round the pat-yo.
Owain
Yes, living in a listed building is expensive, but it keeps the riff-raff out.
Seems to depend on the people in the planning dept of the local autority.
They can be very expensive. Listing covers the whole building, inside and out and often the surrounds. The person responsible is the local conservation officer (CO). The quality of these CO's varies and they tend to make things up as they go along so advice from one may be turned on it's head if a new CO arrives on the scene. If contemplating purchase you need to employ a surveyor with listed building expertise and make sure all work in the past has been approved, if not it is the current occupier who must pay for remedial work.
Sometimes it isn't obvious (or sensible). A friend bought a listed house and discovered later that a previous owner had built a covered walkway to match period ones on adjacent buildings. The work was carried out to a very high standard and indistinguishable from that on other nearby houses. A new CO discovered that the original walkway (identical to the replacement) had been demolished many years ago and replaced by a nasty tinplate lean to in the 1920's. However, as this wriggly tin had been in position on the date the property was listed years later she required the owner to demolish the high quality walkway and replace it with rusty tinplate.
While the owner has the responsibility to follow the dozens of manuals and regulations they are hideously complex. Historic England helpfully says "What activity does and does not require permission or consent is a matter of considerable complexity and is the most common area of misunderstanding." Not getting consent when it is required is a criminal act.
Insurance can be a minefield. Normal insurance isn't usually adequate as it won't cover things like reinstatement using period materials and techniques.
Don't forget too that fire insurance for a thatched property will be considerably higher than for a tiled/stone roof.
Friends of our had a similar problem with a nasty looking (and dangerous) Victorian chimney stack added to an Elizabethan farmhouse - but they won!
But, you are allowed electricity.
A friend was going to buy a listed building but found he couldn't get flood insurance.
As with so many things, there is no single answer. This house was Grade
2 listed in the 1970's, mainly because it is the end of a terrace of 18th century workers cottages opposite a really nice Georgian / Queen Anne terrace.Externally, it has no nice period features apart from a pair of second floor dormers, in fact it looks quite unpleasant because of the Critall windows everywhere else. When I asked about replacing them with "period" small frame hardwood windows with sealed DG units, the conservation officer said "no way".
Lots of generally unpleasant changes had been made in the first half of the 20th century.
Indoors, all the "exposed" beams had been boxed in with hardboard. I didn't ask for permission to remove that. The main living room had a small 30's concrete tiled fireplace (think Wallace and Grommit). Behind that was the brickwork for a Victorian one. Taking that out eventually revealed the original inglenook, where I put a Franklin type woodburner. I didn't ask for permission to do that either. I have tried to ensure that everything I have done internally is in keeping, without necessarily using original materials, for example not using elm for a staircase. (It was two workers' cottages, not a country house). Externally, I have repointed with lime mortar, and replaced the Snowcem with lime wash.
I got slightly shouted at very early on for replacing the collapsing Victorian cast iron gutters with plastic, as specified by Bank as part of the mortgage retention, but this had already happened for the rest of the terrace. It had already been re-tiled with concrete tiles in the 60's.
I understand that dimilar happened with Aldwych tube station. When they did repairs, the PTB insisted on the original canopy - with Strand on it.
The firm that installed our woodburning stove was later in a big fight with the council as their premises on the high street were listed (to be fair the front face of the shop is Georgian and pretty) but the back part which had burnt down was a horrible asbestos roofed tin shack.
Whilst insurers and CO/listed building consent fought it out over what was allowed to be done to rebuild it their stock rusted to a state where it was unsaleable despite the tarpaulins. It was all rather messy.
It seemed obvious to me as a bystander that replacing it quickly with a steel roof would have been the obvious solution but not to the local CO. I think it dragged on for a year or more before common sense eventually prevailed. It seemed quite ludicrous as you couldn't see it from the high street at all. It didn't spoil the view.
you can always apply formally for Planning Permission rather than relying on the CO's whims.
It's well worth registering with the Listed Property Owners Club (LPOC)
Registration is free, and gives you access to lots of useful information on their website.
If you actually buy a listed property, it's worth considering joining LPOC (£55 p.a.). You will then receive an informative magazine several times a year as well as having access to their team of experts.
They have an annual show, running soon in London
Good advice. One house that we've seen has some hideous plastic windows and doors that I can't believe have been approved.
Is there any appeal process if the CO is being daft?
Is there a definitive list of what can and can't be done without permission?
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