OT: sending stuff to USAnia?

I need to send some motor parts to a mate in the states. They weigh about a kilo and would occupy a shoe-box. Any suggestions how to send them? E.g. Post Office or a FedEx-type outfit, and if so which?

Anyone know the customs/duty aspect? The parts actually belong to the recipient and always have done (he had his USAnian camper van shipped back to the states but left some spares in the UK, and now he needs some of them, which would cost him 3-400USD to buy there). Should I say they're a gift or what?

Reply to
John Stumbles
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I do this kind of transaction to and from the U.S. and to and from the rest of Europe several times a month.

I have accounts with DHL and Fedex and use each for different purposes. For anything of value, I wouldn't entertain using the UK Post Office, Parcel Force or US Postal Service - I'm just not satisfied with the tracking system and have had lost items on a couple of occasions so never again. Even their fastest services seem to take a couple of weeks and require one to go to the post office to collect the items.

Fedex will do shipping without having an account as will DHL.

Tariffs are normally based around volumetric weight if they are large but light in weight. Formula is the product of the dimensions in cm divided by 6000. They charge based on whether this weight is greater or not than the actual weight. So for your shoe box (at a guess 35 x

20 x 25) the volumetric weight is 2.9kg

I looked up tariffs on dhlitnow.com and 3kg to USA is £52 for 1-3 days.

Fedex came out to £59 but that was for their Priority Service - normally 2 days. I am not sure if they offer their economy service to non account holders - you could call and ask.

On the Fedex quote site, I entered the item as "mechanical parts" but this doesn't seem to affect the price.

You will probably need to produce a simple commercial invoice listing the items and a declared value for customs purposes. Normally 5 copies are needed to go with the shipment. You will also get an airwaybill form to fill in - the courier will bring this when he comes to your place to collect the item. This has your details and address as shipper, and your friend's address as the recipient. PO Boxes are not acceptable. They will also want a local phone number to reach him.

You can tick a box on the AWB to have taxes (i.e. duty) billed to you or to him. This can be a Fedex or DHL account number or in the absence of that they will bill separately. Normally Fedex wants payment of customs charges before clearance, DHL will normally invoice afterwards if the amount is not a lot.

Saying that they are a gift is irrelevant to the customs value and the duty to be paid if any. Also, you probably won't be able to get away with under-declaring the value - customs people are not stupid. $100-150 declared value would probably be OK; $50 may not be. You could put them down as secondhand perhaps; but just don't try to be clever and put down $20 or zero. All that will happen is that they will open it, decide what they thing the value is and assess duty on that basis. I don't know specifically what the duty is on this particular item, but to give you an idea, into the UK similar things are about 2-3%. It would be unusual for it to be vastly different the other way.

If I was doing this, and without an account, I would probably use DHL, as they are a bit easier to deal with, but there's not a lot in it.

Whichever way, the shipping will seem relatively expensive because of the exchange rate, but it's still less than buying the stuff again.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Fedex is quick and reliable, especially at the US end, but expensive, and requires a lot of detailed paperwork (5 copies afair).

I've just done a 2Kg parcel to NZ via the Royal Mail's Airsure. Minimum paperwork, £27, posted Monday, arrived Fri morning. Tracked all the way.

The problem with post to the US though is their own internal postal service, which can cause problems.

Reply to
Tony Williams

I pick up dozens of shipments like yours everyday, for DHL Red, and what Andy writes is pretty much spot-on.

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will pick the best rates for the service you require. They send a lot of work through DHL.

Please don't try to save a few bob by skimping on packaging. Your shoebox will be lobbed in and out of vans and up conveyor belts, and piled into shipping containers with up to 1500 other parcels.

DHL will accept a "Pro-forma invoice", which is essentially a letter to customs describing the contents and value of the items. This can be downloaded from the DHL website.

Normally for a cash/card/cheque paid shipment (the courier can collect cash or cheque from you when they collect the parcel) the duties must be billed to the recipient. Another option is "Transport Collect" where the shipping and duties are charged to the _recipient_ and must be paid by them when they receive the parcel.

The contents must be accurately described on the airway bill, "machine parts" or "spares" is not acceptable, and could delay the shipment while customs examine it. Bear in mind as well that your parcel will be flown to the States, and will be subject to security checks, hand searched or x-rayed, so an accurate description is essential.

For a non-account holder it is possible that a courier doing his job properly would refuse a shipment that was not accurately described and with an obviously understated value. DHL themselves would fall foul of officialdom if their courier accepted a shipment that broke the rules.

Reply to
Keith

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Reply to
John Stumbles

I think as the item belongs to the recipient and is not being first-imported to the USA duty should not be payable, and the item should not be listed on a commercial invoice.

I'm not sure what nomenclature US customs will expect, but they should have some recognition that their citizens will occasionally have their own possessions sent back from abroad.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

It is a bit daunting the first time you do it, but really not that hard.

No it can be very simple. The customs people care about all the information required being on there and it being fair and accurate. It doesn't have to be an artistic production at all and you don't have to pretend to be a business.

If you look on the web sites of Fedex and DHL there are example ones you can copy and use.

In my first post, I mentioned that I had entered "machine parts" into Fedex's site. This was by way of illustration and the first thing I could see that was reasonably close. As Keith mentioned, it's important to get the description fair and accurate. Think of it as though you were producing an invoice for one of your customers where you listed all the parts used by name, part number and price. However, look at the format required for a commercial invoice and adapt and add the extra bits.

I rather doubt it because it's trying to do administratively more complicated things for them- i.e. working from the back end forwards. It my be that rates are a bit lower in the US, but I suspect there'd be an extra admin cost.

Periodically I have to retrieve items that have been loaned to customers in other countries in Europe. I've tried arranging collection remotely, but it's hard work to do it. Far easier if I give them my Fedex account number and tell them to call their local office. Within the EU, commercial invoices are not normally needed so tht's a simple exercise.

What you could perhaps try is to get your friend to set up an account with the courier firm, give you the number and then you ship using that account number. As long as it's to his address, they should accept it, but I would call them and check first. You will still need the commercial invoice.

Just one other point. On his end, AFAIK, he should not have to pay sales tax because that is normally for purchases made within the same state.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It is a good way of doing it but you still need to follow the good advice given by others regarding an accurate description and value.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

Doesn't work like that.

If he bought the items in the UK and owns them, he still has to pay duty. As I read John's mail, that's the case (i.e. taking back meaning he's gone back and wants the items he bought here)

It's like if I buy tools in the U.S. during a business trip and bring them back with me. I will pay duty and VAT as I bring them into the UK (after allowances). If I buy them there, but ask for them to be shipped, I will still pay duty and VAT on import into the UK (except no allowances).

If he had bought the goods in the U.S., had brought them to the UK and then taken them out again back to the U.S. it's possible to reclaim the taxes. However, this can be a lot of paperwork.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Post is good over here, less so there. It tends to attract less customs attention than couriers.

"Gift" or "trade sample" usually works. Also ensure that they are classed as having little or no value.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

In message , John Stumbles writes

Hardly worth fannying about with a courier for a parcel weighing a kilo. Send it as a small packet, via your local Post Office. Add Airsure for security. Pack well.

Customs sticker is a small one piece affair for a small packet, unlike the multi page document a courier will require. Don't understate the value, though - but it is the UK value that is required, not US value.

Chances are, sending a small packet through the PO will mean that US customs will ignore it, whereas, in my experience, a courier will

*always* levy duty.
Reply to
Graeme

Not any more. There is now a high rate of checking and inspection, regardless of the method of shipping. Underdeclaring or marking in this way is highly likely to trigger an inspection, an arbitrary and high assessment of value and sometimes a penalty to retrieve the goods.

Considering that the amount of duty is likely to be < 5%, it really isn't worth it.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Wait three months and hope it doesn't go missing.

If the parts are not easily replaced, this is ill advised.

Weight is not the issue - it's the value and replaceability.

It can be either, provided that the currency is stated.

This is not true at all. The U.S. Postal Service now carries out quite a high rate of inspection. When they do, the item joins a queue that can be lengthy. One is dealing with a government organisation. A commercial courier will expedite a shipment.

In comparison with the value of the goods and the cost of shipment, the duty element is likely to be small, probably less than $20, so the point is virtually irrelevant anyway.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Why should it? Are you suggesting that the US postal service is less secure than US couriers? Note, I'm not suggesting otherwise, merely curious.

Indeed, but judging by the original enquiry, the parts are worth more in the US than the UK, so the advice was to use the UK value. It is within the UK that any claim will be dealt with.

It is, in my not inconsiderable experience.

ROFL!

Indeed, but why use a courier with almost guaranteed customs duties, when using the Post Office will probably be cheaper, and certainly no less safe?

Reply to
Graeme

Well you might ask. I've sent and received packages on no less than

10 occasions in the last six months where USPS and Royal Mail or Parcelforce are involved. Premium services were paid for but not provided on 8/10. Eventually the items show up delivered by the postman or there is a card insisting that I should go to the post office, pay the VAT and collect. All of this is for a service which is supposed to be door to door with invoicing for clearance payments.

For example, I ordered, ten days ago, some items from a company in the U.S. who have shipped via USPS - I didn't have the opportunity to prevent it and switch the shipment to a proper courier. The company emailed me the USPS tracking number. I can go to the USPS web site and enter the tracking number. All it says is that USPS has received notification of the shipment from the supplier - no more details than that. Completely useless. Generally the tracking system gets updated after the goods are delivered, but not always. Again useless. In effect, property is disappearing into a black hole for 2-4 weeks, even with a premium service and there is no tracking information. Frankly, I don't think they know where things really are at any given time.

If I contrast with the service I get from DHL and Fedex, it's like night and day.

I can use the AWB number on the web site from approximately 2hrs after the package is collected, when it gets the first depot scan. The systems will email me an update. Updates are made several times in a day as the shipment passes through each hub and each administrative stage. I can see if something is stuck in customs or has some other difficulty and finally I can get a precise time on when it was delivered and who signed for it. Any problems and I can speak to a human being 24x7

Hence I won't use these government-type organisations like post offices if I can possibly avoid it.

Value, for customs purposes, means the declared value in the currency of choice. Obviously one would base that on the lower price in the UK as long as there is evidence available should one be asked. It doesn't mean that the declaration has to be in sterling.

I'm sorry, but it is not, in my considerable experience.

I have had perhaps one issue in over 1000 courier shipments that was not handled in very short order.

a) Because the customs duties are likely to be insignificant b) Because it is likely that finding replacements when the post office loses them is going to be a PITA c) You get what you pay for d) The Post Office services are certainly less reliable and secure

Reply to
Andy Hall

In message , Graeme writes

OK, why use a courier company? The courier that picks up your package will have "Level one aviation security clearance" (google it, the qualification doesn't come in a Christmas cracker).

He will be qualified to perform the security checks necessary to classify your package as "Freighter Class Known Cargo", and it can then be loaded directly on to the aircraft without further checks. The paperwork will be checked at this stage, mistakes corrected, and the need for an accurate description explained.

If the courier screws up at this first stage the penalties for him and the company are severe. (Remember Lockerbie? It was a DHL container that contained the bomb.)

Air Cargo Transport rules say that _every_ package flown from the UK will receive a level one check or be x-rayed, unless it is sent by an approved shipper, and you wouldn't believe the hoops you need to jump through to gain _that_ status.

Now, suppose you use the post office instead, the post office staff can't security check the box, it's up to you to get the paperwork right, and if you make a mistake, or value an intricate piece of machinery at a tenner, the parcel _will_ be delayed while it's sorted out.

You really, really don't want your box sitting in a huge shed for days with hundreds of other boxes with paperwork errors.

Reply to
Keith

I think we will have to agree to disagree, as we both appear to have fairly strong views on the advisability of using the services.

My own experience, involving many hundreds of parcels to/from the US and elsewhere suggests that couriers are hopeless, but at least part of that experience relates to their inability to find any address that is not in the centre of a large city. Couriers in this part of the world (NE Scotland) seem to spend half their working day in Post Offices, asking for directions. Quite why courier firms should take business from Royal Mail/Post Office, then expect help with their deliveries is quite beyond my comprehension.

The last item I received by courier was eventually found tucked behind the garage of a neighbour's house, despite the courier having asked for directions at the Post Office, and being shown exactly which house he required. Needless to say, the parcel which was left behind the garage should have been signed for ...

Reply to
Graeme

I can understand your perspective based on service in remote areas. It is not representative of that in more inhabited places. Equally, I am sure that you experience poorer services than I do in a whole variety of ways as a result of the geography - however, you may not even realise about some of them because of no means of comparison.

Certainly the courier firms have periodically had issues with the UK leg of their collection and delivery service. For example, some years ago Fedex had all of this in-house and then decided to outsource that part to Securicor Omega. That worked well until Omega was acquired by DHL. Fedex switched to another firm which initially was not as good. I believe that it's now being brought back in house through an acquisition of ANC. Having said that, the normal high level of service was not affected - in the worst period it would be an hour longer before tracking information would appear on the web site.

Through all of this, the post office and mail services have remained bad in the sense that one has to typically go to the post office to collect packages that have been imported and the tracking system is worthless. I can't do business with outfits that work in that way.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I need to check with him but I was under the impression he'd got them in the US, shipped them over here with the vehicle and now wants them shipped back. However if it's a matter or reclaiming taxes (? - do you you mean customs duty?) rather than not paying it in the first place then I only need to proceed as if they were UK sourced and leave it to him to sort out if he thinks it's worth it.

Reply to
John Stumbles

Ah OK.

It would depend on how it was all imported in the first place. If the bits were simply in a box in the vehicle itself and not itemised out separately when it was imported, then he probably won't have a paper trail for the parts.

He may have paid import VAT on the way in, which if he still has the paperwork, is reclaimable. That would (realistically) have to be done at this end on export. However, think of the context. Even the amount of VAT is not going to be more than about £20. By the time you'd found the right contacts in HMRC,got the paperwork, got it organised and done everything else it would take considerable time and effort. If you were doing this kind of transaction regularly it would not be too bad - for example something like goods going back and forth between Europe and the USA for repair - the system handles that reasonably well. For a one off, almost certainly not worth it. he might want to check on the duty for import into the US but I would be really surprised if it's more than 5%.

Assuming that he doesn't want to bother with any attempt at recovery of original import costs, you can proceed as though the parts are UK sourced. This will probably trigger duty on import into the U.S. but will make the whole procedure a lot less hassle.

Reply to
Andy Hall

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