[OT-ish] HDD formatting "good practice"

I understand your reasoning. But it has some problems (which you may decide to live with, which is fair enough):

a) It leaves you vulnerable to a greater risk of filesystem corruption (which is more often than not constrained to one instance of a filesystem, unless you are an FS/device driver developer ;-> ); If you monitor your disks, failed disks sometimes (more often than not in my experience) go through a failure period where some cluster of blocks become inaccessible, before the entire drive crashes. Splitting filesystems reduces the impact and gives greater chance of recovery.

b) OS reinstalls *are* more difficult. Your solution is conditional upon good backups - but backups are easier to set up if you arrange your filesystems sensibly.

c) It makes dual/multi boot harder to implement.

d) Multiple filesystems provide rudimentary quotaring, so one errant user can't fill up the system filesystem, which is usually bad. Then again if your whole household logs in as "Administrator" this point is moot.

I've used all sorts of partitioning schemes, but they always revolve around the separation of user data from program/OS files. No professional sysadmin would do it any other way - it was good practise in the 70's (initially for different reasons) and it still is good practise.

Put in a couple of 40-60GB partitions for OS + spare - that leaves nearly

400GB for "user data", which is going to take a while to fill, even with a digital camera. By then, expect a second 500GB disk to cost 70 quid (as the Seagate Barracuda SATA 300GB does right now).

If necessary, use second disk as a decant area to re-layout partitions on first disk, but with 40-60GB for the OS/programs, you are likely to be good for a fair few years unless you install Matlab + Xilinx with every library possible along with everything else going.

Another solution is to use logical volume management, but it depends on the OS support for it and sometimes the simplicity of simple partitions buys extra robustness.

Yes. I remember when 20MB was the dogs :) Doesn't change anything though.

The only practical answer is another disk. Unless one is rich enough to buy a SAIT tape drive and some media which will do about 800GB per tape typically. Several grand for the drive and 100 quid per tape. Ouch.

DVDs suffer from the same problems as CDRs - as in how long are they good for? 1 year, 5 years, 10 years? I don't trust them for the only copy of valuable data.

What I do in my home server is double up on the disks - I have 4. Each disk carries various data (home directories, /vol/ areas, upto about 40% of the disk capacity), the rest of the disk is used as a backup area for data from other disks. Backups using rsync run several times a day automatically. Won't help is the box catches fire, but it guards against disk failure, which I've had twice in 4 years on that server. For the box catching fire scenario, I back up my really important data to a spare disk in my work PC, using rsync it doesn't take long nor use much bandwidth. But an old mouldy PC in the shed/garage with a big disk and a bit of cat5 (even WIFI) would work well too.

Cheers

Tim

Reply to
Tim S
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Looks more like a Partition Magic bug to me.

Cheers

Tim

Reply to
Tim S

Do you mean "low level reformat" or "make a filesystem/format"?

Partitioning and making filesystems are high level operations. The computer will ask the drive "how many blocks do you have" and it will expect them all to work (assuming LBA mode).

Fdisk does nothing more than write to the first logical sector (512 bytes) on the drive a copy of the MS DOS format partition table and, occasionally, depending on invocation/version of fdisk, a copy of the MBR.

If the drive goes pear shaped having the first sector written to, then it is broken. No debate. It does not work as expected, and if it were mine, it would be returned forthwith. Presumable Samsung screwed up badly?

Some people don't even use partitions, I have on occasion given the whole disk (raw) over to a filesystem or a higher level volume manager like EVMS.

This (generally, not you John) is starting to remind me of my discussions with SanDisk this weekend past, over a failed CF card.

Me: mails SanDisk, requesting an RMA under the 5 year guarantee due to 67xx bad blocks on the device appearing...

Them: Please can you use Windows XP to delete/recreate partition and reformat the filesystem.

Me: No I don't have any MS product available on a system with a CF card reader. I use linux. I have performed the equivalent operations with fdisk and mkfs.vfat Oddly enough it doesn't work any better. BTW, were you hoping the mkfs operation would take note of the bad blocks and hide them at the FS layer, because that is not acceptable. Either the device hides them at the hardware layer or you give me a new device.

Them: Repeat 1st line support bullshit about Win XP...

Me: Gets on the phone, gives them a short lecture and is immediately given the contact numbers of 3 UK distributors who can handle RMAs. 3 days later I have a new device. Why they had to make a simple thing hard I don't know, but they probably regretted doing it to me whilst I am giving up smoking because I don't currently have a lot of patience in the face of stupidity...

Cheers

Tim

Reply to
Tim S

Now you really want Linux or UNIX. Windows networking sucks :-)).

Chris

Reply to
Christopher Tidy

I am with Tim on this.

Not at all. In fact with smaller drives (and older file systems) partitioning was almost vital if you wanted to avoid throwing large proportions of your disk space away with monsterous cluster sizes. A

200MB drive split into two 100M partitions had significantly more useable space than if left as one.

Careful planing, and tools like partition magic sort that. Also remember that with NTFS you can graft a new partition onto a branch of an exiting directory tree. Thus making a partiton "bigger" without repartitioning it.

Here is one big reason why partitioning is still a good idea. A system/boot partition that can be restored from one or two DVDs is far more useful that a whole system backup that takes 10s or 100s. Also it makes doing emergency recovery backups simpler since you don't need to worry so much about being able to select individual files to avoid overwriting user files with older backups.

If you have more than one physical disk in the computer then there are performance gains to be had to make sure that windows and the main page file are on separate physical disks.

Most people find that if they keep photos and video out of their documents/data then the whole data partition can be DVD sized or less and hence very easy to backup.

Reply to
John Rumm

If only....

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well, I said it with a grin, but it has been my experience. I've found that when it comes to networking, what works for one variant of UNIX generally works for another, and that setting up UNIX-based networks is pretty trouble free. Conversely I've found that setting up Windows networks operates quite differently from version to version, and frequently not at all. I remember with Windows 95 I couldn't get the connection to work at all unless I turned Windows file sharing on, which I didn't want to do. With later versions I've found that the firewalls necessary to catch the multitude of Windows trojans and viruses interfere with legitimate network traffic, often without telling you clearly what they're doing. My experience has been that while UNIX/Linux is harder to learn in the first place, it's a hell of a lot more robust. I used to use Windows, but I wouldn't go back.

If you go another newsgroup (I can't think of an appropriate one right now) I'm sure someone can help with your printer problem, but I don't do Windows anymore.

Chris

Reply to
Christopher Tidy

The message from Tim S contains these words:

Remember the commodore 9060? 5MB and proud of it!

Reply to
Guy King

The message from Tim S contains these words:

Because in many cases it will get the customer to piss off and not bother them again. This makes it cheaper for them.

Reply to
Guy King

Nothing wrong with the disks then. Just useless software and inexperienced (I am usually polite) users.

Reply to
dennis

It wouldn't surprise me, Guy.

My logic would be, well, if I go away, they've saved themselves 20 quid or whatever. In the meantime I'm looking to buy 2 off 1GB devices, so being now pissed of I'm considering Lexar or even Corsair. And all the bad will from me telling everyone about it.

Reply to
Tim S

Gents,

Having read your various responses and comments, plus this

formatting link
interesting thread I have resolved to initially format the HDD with one partition, and implement a robust backup strategy, along with an equally robust "keep the children from installing crap off the web my new PC" policy

Before making the post I was well aware that views would be polarised. Somehow I was hoping there would be a "third way".....and I think there is one....to use Partition Magic at a later date should my single partition strategy turn out to be ill judged.

Thanks again,

David

Reply to
Vortex

I agree with Rob Convery - 100 & 400 is safer. Keeps your data separate so you can image and reinstall the OS without any worries.

Reply to
Steve Walker

The message from Tim S contains these words:

Yes, but beancounters don't think like that.

Reply to
Guy King

The message from "Steve Walker" contains these words:

If you've got two physical drives having the swapfile on the second drive can speed things up as it can read from one channel while writing on the other. For this I've a 1GB partion on my second HD just for the swapfile.

Reply to
Guy King

In message , vortex2 writes

If you have an old PC with a reasonably large hard disk then have a go at making your own NAS using this.

formatting link
said, USB connected storage is getting cheaper all the time - back up all your digital photos, MP3s and documents onto the device and then take it into work, leave it at your Mums or whatever so if the day your house burns down or the PC gets nicked then you have an 'off site backup'.

Reply to
Andrew Sinclair

I was reading down the threads to see if anyone else agreed with this. I was taught computers by a blind man and he always told me to partition a drive and put the operating system on the first partition (C:) and put all applications and data on the second partition (D:)

I agree with what you say all the way. It has worked very well for me for well over 15 years.

By the way, if the second partition gets buggered, you can usually get it back by using FDISK. Remove all partitions and re-partition the drive with the same parameters that you used the last time. Second partition will still be there.

Dave

Reply to
Dave

If you want a third way, have you thought about virtualisation?:

formatting link
product is free for download now)

You can give the kids a PC to do what they like with, knowing full well you can return it to pristine "newness" any time you like with no effort.

Reply to
John Rumm

Nearly everyone will use some old PC they have lying about to run the free software. The problem being that they tend to be power hungry. Typically they will take 50w to 100+w more than something like a Buffalo Linkstation.

That is about 10p a day more to run. It soon makes it cheaper to buy the dedicated device than to run the (free) software.

That said you can use it for other functions, or you could buy an ultra low power PC for the job.

Two of them would be even better. Murphy says that the software will crash during the backup and that both the original and the backup will be lost if you only have one.

Reply to
dennis

Agreed. Laptops are convenient and low-power, and available cheap from eBay (probably with dodgy batteries, but that doesn't matter).

I have two backups, but not for that reason. Realistically a crash will not damage the original *and* the backup, so a second backup isn't necessary for that reason. But if your only backup is at your Mum's it's inconvenient to make frequent backups. Therefore I have one local backup, updated frequently, and one off-site backup, updated less often.

Reply to
Mike Barnes

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