OT ish: Cancellation of Contracts

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>> It appears these regulations would also apply to Tupperware/Avon/Ann

For a long time, there's been a 7-day cooling off period for contracts signed in your home - to stop double-glazing salesmen etc. pressurising you into a bad deal.

But these latest regs just gold plate all that - quite unnecessarily in my view. Why not contact Nick Clegg - nominating this as a law to be scrapped?

Meanwhile, since that will take some time, you'll just have to get customers to sign a bit a bit of paper if they want things doing in less than 7 days. If you explain the circumstances, I don't think anyone will suspect you of a rip-off. Most people realise how stupid some of our laws are!

Alternatively, get the customer to come to your place to sign the order. AIUI, these regs don't then apply.

Reply to
Roger Mills
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And reading the document again it does seem that TS are right. TMH will need to get them to sign the form otherwise he risks not being paid. Whether this is likely to be a problem in reality is less certain.

I don't think the DSR applies to services.

Reply to
Mark

Only if you don't notify them of their rights... so handing them an information notice on on arrival - or sending them in one in advance will take care of that.

(note as with all legislation enacted as a knee jerk reaction to perceived specific problems, there are further and more wider reaching unintended consequences that are not usually considered at the time)

Emergency work would come under the so called "regulation 9" vis "the supply of goods to meet an emergency", and all of your work would come under "the supply of services of any other kind;"

It sounds like some form of "authorisation to proceed" form is what is required, one that also includes the specified cancellation wording in a boxed out section at the end. It could have a space for you to note the agreed works with the customer - and hence might be useful in some cases anyway where a customer "forgets" they asked for some aspect of a job to be done when it comes to time to pay. It could also include permission to work on their property, and perhaps a waiver to cover required disruption to a building etc (e.g. if you need to hack through a tiled boxed in section to fix their leaking pipe, they can't expect you to make good at your own expense etc)

I expect that many businesses have a PDF of a form like this on their web site, and a printed copy or two to hand to show trading standards when they ask. Whether they actually use them for every job is a very different matter. They may just whip them out when the client comes over as a bit of a custard.

As with most things of this nature, the reality (outside of Dennis world of course) is that the vast majority of businesses carry on working in harmony with their customers, blissfully ignorant of large swathes of applicable legislation, and by and large, bad stuff does not happen. Not least because there is no one to police compliance with it, no one who cares anyway, apart from a very small minority situations where there is an egregious violation of it.

(much the same as with building regs violations - again in theory a 5K fine could apply, but that would require a local authority to spend its money seeking to prosecute. Something they are only likely to do in the most serious cases, where all their other attempts to rectify the situation have been wilfully ignored etc).

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>> It appears these regulations would also apply to Tupperware/Avon/Ann Yup, and hence why the rep will take orders and issue a "receipt" that includes the relevant wording etc in the small print at the time the order is finalised. Fulfilment of the order will normally take place at some later point anyway once the good have been ordered.

The paper boy is different since he is only fulfilling part of a contract made between you and the newsagent.

They however are covered by their own exhaustive legislation and miss-selling rules.

Previous Guvmint fuckwits in this case, although I have no doubt the current incumbents are equally capable!

Reply to
John Rumm

I can think of a number of cases where he might...

e.g. a customer asking for a new garden gate to be made and fitted. The supplier might arrive, measure up, quote etc, and then make the gate prior to delivery and fitting at a later date.

However "the supply of goods made to a customer?s specifications or clearly personalised;" and "the supply of goods, which by their nature are consumed and before the cancellation, were so consumed;" would equally apply.

Reply to
John Rumm

?

There are exceptions for certain services - eg financial services (subject to separate legislation) - and let-outs from some provisions for food and drink (eg milkmen) and accommodation, transport, catering or leisure services (for example hotel rooms and rail tickets). But the generality apply to services as to goods. See eg the OFT's guide

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includes of particular relevance to TMH if he were to conclude the contract over the phone:

"3.38 Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel if the order is for: services where you have had the consumer's agreement to start the service before the end of the usual cancellation period and you have provided the consumer with the required written information before you start the service, including information that the cancellation rights will end as soon as you start the service"

As with the doorstrep selling regs, I think a lot of traders just cover this in a pro forma they ask people to sign before starting work. And as others have said, even more probably just ignore the lot.

Reply to
Robin

Me too!

Reply to
Bob Minchin
8<

I can't imagine TMH doing that at all. He would tell the customer to buy one and then say he would fit it. Thus avoiding his turnover growing too large and putting any warranty problems onto the customer.

Reply to
dennis

Then you have no imagination f****it.

I regularly build custom gates for people.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

I do sometimes. People often book me for a 'half' or 'full' day. I'll get a list of jobs but won't know the exact details till I get there.

DSR?

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Which part of the word "made" do you have comprehension problems with?

Reply to
John Rumm

Distance Selling Regulations...

(i.e. business conducted over the phone or internet etc)

Reply to
John Rumm

No, that would be an emergency and exempted. And Trading Standards would have to push the case to the courts to impose any fine which would have to be justified. =A35k fine for fixing a leak isn't going to happen unless you take advantage of the consumer. Charging an old dear =A320k for the job and you can expect the 5k fine on top of an order to repay the =A320k.

Yes and no. According to the legislation yes - however if a client doesn't pay and refers you back to this legislation claiming you have not completed the paperwork then you can still follow then normal procedures for recovering the monies owed. Assuming you have used reasonable care and skill and charged a reasonable amount for the job in question then you can still take them to court for non payment - their argument is breach of these regulations, your argument is they have been unjustly enriched. A judge or sheriff will not be impressed with the consumers knowledge of the law, they will be interested in the civil matter laid before them and if it is clear that the consumer has taken advantage then they can expect to pay.

However you should get the paperwork sorted, ask TS for some examples you can amend to suit your needs.

Lots of the above are likely to be under the limit or have some form of returns policy. Most likely to be stitched up on the doorstep by alarm installation/tarmac/roofing/landscaping which is what this is designed to protect against though others are caught in the crossfire.

Reply to
Willie

That was my reaction too.

Reply to
hugh

In message , "dennis@home" writes

So if you're not satisfied with the repair to your leaking pipe you can send it back and the plumber has to pay the postage?

Reply to
hugh

The same fuckwits are actually still in place, only the figureheads have changed

Reply to
hugh

True, although the figureheads do get to steer them into a blind ally of their choice ;-)

Reply to
John Rumm

I can see an interesting argument there, "but Guv, the time I used has passed and unless you return it to me, I demand my payment now!"

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

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