OT: Hydrogen Powered SUVs are Here

Methanol still produces CO2 while pure hydrogen does not.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I have chose a plug-in hybrid because I occasionally make long journeys and, even if I planned overnight stops within the range of an EV, there is no certainty that the hotels would have charging points and, even if they do, that there will be enough of them. Besides, I would really like a gas-turbine powered car ;-)

Rather than towing, perhaps a large truck-mounted arm could push the car forwards, then lift it, move it back, lower it, and repeat the cycle several times while making 'vroom, vroom' noises?

Which, with the expectation that we will be seeing electric only zones in some cities in the not-too-distant future, is my reason for buying one.

Well I suppose you could convert existing cars but not build any more such. Trouble is, that would mean that the hydrogen refuelling network would only be needed for 10-20 years, so no one would build it.

Well it is really. For a start it doesn't produce any particulates and is cleaner burning in other respects, too.

I doubt plug-in hybrids will be allowed in “electric only zones”. I could be wrong but even if you can switch it to use electric power only, it’ll still be a driver selectable option which probably won’t satisfy the full “electric only” definition.

Tim

True, but converting an ICE to run on hydrogen is far from trivial. Conversion to LPG or methanol is much much easier.

Hydrogen conversion really wouldn’t make any kind of economic sense. It’s an idea touted by oil companies fighting for survival rather than a rational way of decarbonising our transport.

Tim

Many years ago I had the fantasy of obtaining a spare RB108 engine to mount in the back of my A35 van.

Modern cars last for decades fine.

But the efficiency of that approach is pretty f***ed.

It should be fairly easy to spot a car using its engine in an electric zone, whether it was a hybrid or not.

I would expect them to work like the German low emission zones, where you have to buy a permit, showing the registration number, which is displayed on the windscreen. For electric only zones, it could be a permit that can be withdrawn for those who break the rules and enforceable by ANPR cameras, like the London congestion zone..

Moer realistically, add one of these to your bicycle:

ICEs can be very quiet. How do you propose this would be done? Can see any council installing the detection infrastructure required for a dying breed of car.

Much easier just to ban all ICEs.

Tim

This whole thing may lead to some social change. Cars will become much more expensive to own, and many of those who live out in the country, and are just managing with a car, now, may end up moving to the suburbs. Perhaps rural buses and taxis will get a new lease of life. The countryside, under this scenario, will become more and more the preserve of the rich who can afford the more expensive vehicles.

More probably just being spotted by Police. The countries that are likely to do this first, like Germany, seem to have a higher police presence than the UK.

The German low emission zones were phased in, with cars getting traffic light colour stickers. At first, only cars that did not qualify for a ticker were banned. Any with a red, yellow or green sticker were allowed in. Then cars with red stickers were banned and finally, yellow stickers were banned, leaving only cars with green stickers, like mine, being allowed in. AIUI, the timing was designed so that only cars that were several years old were banned at each stage. I would expect electric only zones to be brought in there as a development of that system. Banning all ICE cars in town centres overnight would probably not be a politically savvy approach in any country.

On a scale of 1 to a 1000 of priority, with 1000 being absolute highest priority, what level do you think the UK police would give to this? 1 would be a generous estimate.

So, folk go on eBay and buy the required coloured stickers. Police would have to look up vehicle details to confirm whether stickers were valid or not. Not gonna happen.

We have ANPR systems already in many cities. I can’t see any city trying to impose a new ultra-low emission zone wanting to police whether plug in hybrid engines are running or not. Of course it won’t come in overnight as EV supply is still way too parlous but when supply does start to catch up I’m sure it will happen.

Tim

On 22/11/2022 21:44, Tim Streater wrote: ch easier just to ban all ICEs.

??? My village is full of relatively low income people. The countryside needs its tractor drivers, delivery drivers and diesel fitters.

Force them to the cities and the cities will starve

You are being too parochial. Low emission zones exist across Europe and the citizens of most European countries are far less tolerant of automated traffic law enforcement than we are in the UK.

I am far more interested in what is happening in Europe than in the UK. In the UK, I am more likely to go into a large city using my Senior Railcard than to travel by car.

The system seems to work in Germany.

The Norwegian LEZs require vehicles that are permitted to enter to be fitted with transponders. Those could be programmed to detect when a hybrid was running on all electric.