OT: Grid on point of collapse as system buy price breaks £1.50 per unit barrier

On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 22:16:18 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

That's gone recently then. Wasn't one of the SBR plants oil? Littlebrook? Ah not that recently, Littlebrook D ceased operation on 31 Mar 2015.

Not in my book, "oil" in this context is bunker or fuel oil, stuff so viscous that you have to warm it up before trying to pump it. Diesel is "gas oil".
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On 08/11/16 22:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:

You followed the same links I did ... ;-)

However there are a lot of grades of 'bunker fuel' or whatever it is. From something resembling central heating oil or kerosene, down to 'nearly but not quite tar'.
Some of these are 'marine diesel fuel'
So lines it seems are blurred.
In terms of generation, the oil burning steam plant is all gone now. What the new STOR diesels burn I do not know. I would assume that it's not heavy oil, but stock red diesel.
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On Tuesday, 8 November 2016 22:49:55 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

The correct term is "Residual fuel oil". It's all the shit left over after refining to get the lighter fractions out of the crude oil.
Full of all sorts of nasty pollutants ranging from sulphur to heavy metals. All of which gets into the atmosphere when it's burned.
http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-tables/substances/heavy-fuel-oil-residual-fuel-oil/
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Oil on the generation totals is oil and nothing but heavy fuel oil.
Diesels will not show because they are all connected beyond the bulk supply point on the grid system, all you will see is suppressed demand
Quite a few of the lower output (up to 35MW) OCGT's mainly based at large coal & nuclear sites exclusively use oil distallate and not gas but will always show on the OCGT totals.
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 16:30:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"

We looked at some low pressure gas turbines with heat regeneration which achieved about 16% conversion to motive power, the aero derived ones which ran higher pressures were rated at ~33% and at the time big diesel could do 40%, what are the comparable figures now?
IIRC a traditional steam turbine was turning a similar 33% into electricity.
A colleague went on to work on solid oxide fuel cells in co cycle with a gas turbine and it was expected to achieve 70% conversion heat to electrical power but has remained vapourware for more than a decade now.
AJH
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On 08/11/16 20:19, snipped-for-privacy@loampitsfarm.co.uk wrote:

37% for an OCGT.

35-37%.

CCGT is maybe 60% when fully warmed up.

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Oh, if you ant a good larf. just read the Grauniad!
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/08/wind-turbines-uk-electricity-dong-energy
A thinly disguised puff piece for a crappy Danepak company that has pushed itself up a blind alley.
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 21:29:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

It amuses me the way Poulsen (Dong's CEO) expects to produce 5GW. I bet that doesn't take into account the capacity factor, but is just peak output. Also, the way he thinks that batteries are going to be able to store masses of surplus wind energy in the not-too-distant future, when the link-out to battery storage technology is decidedly down-beat and pessimistic.
From that link: 'The biggest problem is energy density' and 'researchers have struggled to increase energy density and meet strict safety requirements', 'The more energy you put into a box, the more dangerous it will be', ' thermal management is crucial. If a battery heats up beyond 80C, the components start to decompose. That’s when it can explode'. And all that negativity from the Grauniad, so in reality things can't be looking good (but we knew that anyway). http://tinyurl.com/hpqvarr .
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On 08/11/16 14:20, Andy Burns wrote:

Its fallen further with a coal plant closing in Scotland. Longannet? Not sure.
Coal + nuclear around 19GW if that's 'conventional steam'...?
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Nuclear was under a different category, seems there's ~10GW of coal plant sitting mothballed, rather than been actually de-commissioned.
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On 08/11/16 16:44, Andy Burns wrote:

I now see that the forecast capacity margin for two days ahead is -710MW.
Minus....
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I've not poked my nose outside today yet, ISTR they were forecasting wind this week, this week it hasn't arrived and they're now forecasting it for next week instead.
This afternoon, actual demand was ~1GW higher than predicted demand, overcast so not much solar, hence them having to break out the big carrots, looks like they'll need more for Thursday ...
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On 08/11/2016 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

That's quite a big gap! I think I will go and check my generator set.
Today's load curve doesn't look all that different to yesterday's - why are they struggling all of a sudden. Did winter come as a surprise?
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On 08/11/16 17:27, Martin Brown wrote:

It's a bit colder and less windy and overcast too.
The curve shape is the same, but its a GW or so higher.
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On 08/11/2016 17:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And predicted to get colder too.

Now that the peak has passed they had better start pumping the pumped storage overnight if they expect to survive tomorrow's evening peak.
I presume the lack of spare French base nuclear capacity at the moment plays a part in this situation. They satisfy their own demand first.
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wrote:

The Republic of Ireland has some Peat fueled power stations with mechanical stripping of peat bogs on a large scale and around 500 hundred miles of a dedicated narrow gauge railway system to transport it to the plants. Hardly any power is exported to the UK mainland though with the flow over the connector being almost always being the other way. But if we can't let them have any I suppose they will have to run them harder. They were due to close around 2019 but the operators now wish to keep them going for longer and various other factions don't.
G.Harman
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Yes, I remember seeing about them

Seems we've been pulling, rather than pushing lately (not at full tilt though)
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One of the Irish interconnectors doesn't work properly. They're replacing it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Moyle
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Wonder what ABB did? Connected a black wire to a red one? Got the phase timing wrong?
I had a bit of a google but didn't turn anything up.
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