As a matter of interest, is it acceptable to label wires with PVC tape rather than sleeving? It has the disadvantage that it invariably falls off if you wait long enough. I have no idea what the answer is, if indeed there is an agreed answer.
A loop in ceiling rose is not a junction box.
Even without loop in ceiling roses, a new installtion should have no joint/junction boxes.
I can't help your ignorance. I had a five year apprentice electrician training. Junction boxes are for amateurs, modifications and repairs to damage.
Loop in ceiling roses are not junction boxes.
Labels from a Dymo 4200 or similar seem pretty permanent, you can do 'flag' labels or ones that wrap round the cable.
I'm talking about sleeving to indicate that blue wires are live, or, as in this case, protective earth. The ones in the picture above seem to be done with tape rather than sleeving. I am questioning whether this is appropriate.
I'd prefer to use sleeving for a permanent installation, particualry for earth as earth sleeving is easily obtainable compared to, eg, red sleeving*. But for the OP's work in progress I'd have no objection.
*I keep offcuts of 10mm T+E to make red sleeving from.jgh
True, in fact as far as I can tell, there is little with which you can help.
Having heard the many tales of electricians apprentices here, that is actually quite easy to believe.
Prejudice, or just ignorance?
It is entirely resonable to wire an parts of or even an entire lighting circuit with 4 terminal junctions boxes in the right circumstance. Ceiling roses[1] are not always appropriate.
[1] Also bleedingly obviously a junction box! The location of the cable entry and exit holes does not change what it does.For socket circuits they are less often required at the time of initial installation, unless you need a backbone / spur style radial circuit.
Well it's certainly the normal practice to mark the blue (or black) of a switch drop with tape to indicate it's switched live and not neutral (though whoever installed the junction box that started this thread didn't bother). I've never seen sleeving used for this, though it is available - as is cable with two browns so no marking is needed.
As for the earth wires, yes it is a bit lazy to use offcuts of cable marked with tape - I should have used some spare earth wire with sleeving on. But I'll be taking it apart again next week, so the tape should last until then - and each cable is marked at both ends and in the middle where there's room.
It's far from the only thing wrong (most obviously the lack of an enclosure - there are exposed live screws, though it would be pretty difficult to touch them by accident), though it's probably still safer than when I started.
Mike
It is my understanding that cables that need sleeving even in the old red & black colours that the sleeving should use the unified colours.
Richard
Sorry, I wasn't particularly meaning to criticise your setup, which is obviously temporary, it was more I have seen tape used (and fallen off!) and I wondered what others thought about its use for permanent wiring.
Isn't that going to be a bit confusing unless you also use brown on the red wires, and blue on the black wires when they don't get brown sleeving? I'lll admit that I have done as you suggest when wiring two ganged switches with old and new cables to them, but that may have been laziness.
That is an embarrassingly long apprenticeship for an electrician.
It was normal back then. But then it was proper training and involved the firms own training school and Technical college as well as practical work. At the end of it I had an HNC in electrical machines, power, control sytems and industtial administration.
Drivel. I have seen many lighting circuit systems fall in and out of favour. The only one where junction boxes were considered acceptable was rubbber insulated lead served cable. Fell out of favour around 1960.
Every joint is a potential source of trouble, which is why they should be minimised. Anybody that can't do a new installation without joint /junction boxes is not fit for the job.
That sounds like a cable manufacturer's sales pitch. Do you have every individual light switch cabled back to the Consumer Unit?
OK, so how would you fit in a new installation a ceiling light fitting which has only 2 terminals (spring-loaded clamps)?
FTAOD (a) there's not even somewhere to park a CPC and (b) there are loads such sold every day by IKEA et al.
The number of joints is mostly a function of the circuit topology. You make those connections at an accessible place - be that a junction box (four terminal, ceiling rose, click connector, wago box etc), or at the switch. The number of wires you need to join is not changed by the jointing method.
So then why not enlighten us; how would you wire a lighting circuit without junction boxes?
I had the same problem when I put four Klik ceiling 'roses' in our lounge. Flat three terminal plate, on a BESA box.
I used a junction box in the floor void above.
You put in and extra terminal.
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