New water main, connection problem

After receiving an astronomical quote from a 'plumber', we decided to install our own new water mains as it was the only way to correct the problem of very poor water pressure (shared water mains with our neighbour). Anglian Water have now seen us the price for them to connect their bit (433) and I have ordered the mdpe pipe (the length is 30 odd meters). We are located near Towcester.
The trench has been dug to 750cm (the garden is looking like something from the first world war..) and the 100 year old steel pipe is now accessible.
My problem is how to connect the mdpe to the steel pipe? I am hoping there is an easier alternative that to, cut the pipe, cut a new thread and then make the connection.
The reason I can't just dispense with the steel altogether is that it enters the house and in embedded in a concrete floor. I have no desire to rip it all up. I'd rather just make the connection, outside the back door where the pipe enters the house.
Is there an easier way? I haven't used a tap / die set since I was 14 years old (over 25 years ago at school), so I am not keen to practise now...
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I presume you mean 750mm? A trench at 7.5 metres deep must have taken some digging!!
Cheers
John
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on 16/12/2006, John supposed :

He did say his garden was a mess :-)
I would not reuse any of the old pipe...
Get an SDS drill and it will go through the concrete like butter. If necessary you might be able to bring the new pipe in at a slightly better location to do the work, than the steel pipes present entry.
--

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Harry (M1BYT) (L)
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750mm is hard enough.

Nor would I

I totally destroyed a Makita HR3000C trying to do this. In the end I smashed up a small section of my concrete floor and then made good for a few pounds.
Adam
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ARWadsworth wrote:

I cut through a 200cm thick concrete slab with a rotary slab cutter - hired it. Then you can use a pick on the rest..
That was laying an incoming electricity cable..
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Yes, the trench is 750mm! deep, it was difficult enough to get to that depth!
Much as I might like to dispense with all the steel pipe, if I choose to replace it all I would have to rip up the hardwood flooring, excavate 1.5m of concrete slab, then connect the pipe up to the copper pipe in a false wall (which is currently unmolested). I really don't want the aggravation! I can live with 2m of steel and none of the aggro!
The original plumber seemed also keen not to make life difficult, he intended to connect to the pipe as it left the house.
So, given that I have to (for simplicity's sake) connect to the steel pipe (and www.philmac.co.uk doesn't seem to be working), any other suggestions?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

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Oh well it was working when I posted. Try www.talbot.co.uk
Jim A
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On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 07:52:29 -0800, David.Rignall wrote:

===============================Is there any reason why the new pipe shouldn't rise outside and enter through a hole in the wall? It would need suitable protection from all possible sources of damage - both real and imaginary - but it's not unheard of. Mobile homes usually have their water supply connected like this with full approval I believe.
The old redundant pipe could be blanked and left in place for any possible future modifications in the same way that gas pipes are left.
If it's safe to have 22mm copper gas pipes on outside walls I see no reason why heavy duty plastic water pipe should be a problem.
Cic.
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But the difficulty with your suggestion is that we would have to have up to 2m of blue mdpe pipe going through our living room and then entering the false wall where the water pipe then goes upto the loft. We could box it in but thats more work. Our next door neighbour does have a similar type arrangement it 15mm copper pipe with a stop tap but it looks particularly ugly.
I've done an ascii diagram to illustrate
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x x x x x x x x x | x | | xxxxxxxxxxxxx x ========| x false wall x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hope that helps to explain Cicero wrote:

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On 16 Dec 2006 08:38:00 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote this:-

Does it have to go through the living room and connect to the existing pipes in a false wall? Could you not take the plastic pipe in elsewhere and run it up to the loft? Adding a small amount of copper pipe may be necessary to feed existing fittings "the wrong way", but is usually not necessary.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
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I've had a chance to test the flow rate that we currently have and it pours out of the tap at a massive 2ltrs per minute!
There is really no other option than to use the false wall.
David Hansen wrote:

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On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:17:01 GMT Cicero wrote :

Frost. It doesn't matter how well you insulate the pipe as eventually its temperature will fall to the outside temperature (OK not quite true because of convection within the pipe)
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Your risk but my cottage was originally fed by a steel pipe from the farm across the road which surprisingly was left live but plugged at the end after it was replaced some 40 years ago. It has now been isolated but prior to that it burst twice in the road causing no end of bother.
Rob
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Check out the technical help here, doubt there is any need to do thread cutting but I'd be surprised if you can avoid cutting the pipe.....
http://www.philmac.co.uk /

I'm with others who recommend trying to take the MDPE into the house. Breaking through the concrete floor is fairly trivial, getting under or through the foundations may be a bit harder. Extend your trench as far as possible and see what is revealled. Incidently how did your plumber propose to do the job?
Jim A
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On 16 Dec 2006 03:49:53 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I cant help with your problem but out of interest how much was your quote? I shall be getting a new water main too though I'm thinking of finding a 'man with a moler' rather than dig up my lawn
Anna
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The plumber (who is approved by Anglian Water) sent me a quote for just under 4000. I thought this a tad high.
The cost so far to do it my self has been
180 - To take out my extended family for a meal to pay for the trench day (32 meters of 750mm deep trench) 45 Two lots of 50m*25mm mdpe blue piping (as we are doing next doors pipe as well because we are nice!) 433 To Anglian Water to pay for the connection. Approx 20 for sundry items
Total cost 678.
I suspect I will buy 30m of larger diam tube to protect the water pipes in the trench. I suspect this should be no more than 40.
We did consider moling but couldn't find a suitable person to do it. It may well have been cheaper/easier?
Anna Kettle wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Firstly, I doubt whether the water board will connect a new main to a spliced pipe, they will want to see the main, in the hole prior to backfilling, they will also want to see where it enters the house, this part *must* be insulated with 100mm insulation for around six foot, the part where it comes up from the bottom of the trench at 90 degrees under the floor/wall of the house requires a rigid plastic sleeve (these can be bought from most plumbers merchants) and the lagging and pipe are inside this, where it enters the house it will obvioulsy need a stop tap, all this will need to be in place before they will connect.
Attempting to join to steel is 1) almost impossible 2) a waste of time, money and effort considering it's heavily corroded inside, causing severe pressure problems, hence the need for a new main. and 3) as mentioned above, they probably won't connect to it.
HTH
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Assuming this is correct, how can I insert the new pipe through the floor and into the false wall without completely destroying the house in the process?
Is there a moling system that will be able to do this? Any idea's on whom might help with the next phase of the project?
Also, given that their are steel to mpde connectors available and that the connection is on our land, can't we just say to the water board to bog off?
Phil L wrote:

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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Does it have to follow the *same* route as the old pipe? Isn't there any easier way to get it into the loft?

Possibly. By the same token, why involve the water board at all - why not put a steel to MDPE connector just on your side of the water board's stop tap?
But unless you replace the whole lot - from the external stop tap to the point where you need a decent flow rate - you may find that you haven't removed the bottle-necks, and you will have spent a lot of money to little avail. The internal pipework needs to be in at least 22mm copper or plastic pipe - and certainly *not* in rusty 1/2" steel.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Given the very small size of the house, unless the pipe goes up the side of the outside wall (I've seen them do it with gas pipes but I'm not sure if it's legitimate to do it with water) there really is no other option than to follow the old course
The iron / mdpe connection is someway from the connection that Anglian water will do. Indeed, it is almost 32 meters away! The plan was to run two new connections from the bottom of the garden (where our single water main is) and then do the two connections just outside the doors so that we can both have water meters (which is not possible with our shared mains)
I'm hoping that our blockage is in the other 31 meters of pipe, given that both our houses have poor pressure which I assume indicated that the blockage is within the 'shared' section.
The pipe which emerges into the bathroom, on it's way up to the loft is 22mm copper so I suspect that the length of iron pipe left would be a mere 2m. (i.e from outside the house, going to the false wall)
On digging the trench we discovered that as some point the Water Board has indeed connected 'their' blue mdpe pipe to our iron pipe. My thinking is that if they can do it, why can't I?
Roger Mills wrote:

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