Hi Guys, I have a Triton Bermuda 9.5Kw shower that must be at least 15 years old. It has developed a fault in that the water never gets really hot. When the temperature dial is right up to No. 10 the water is only 'warm', you can quite easily hold your hand under it.
There is obviously power getting to it as the light comes on and the water gets hotter than if the power is off. Any ideas as to the fault and remedy, or as I suspect is it a chuck it and renew. As the shower is now obsolete how can I find one with the same / similar water and electric entry points, as the pipe and cable are behind a tiled wall (not a Plasterboard one either!).
Whilst on the subject the circuit breaker in the CU is 32A is this OK, and how can I check the mm^ of the cable, it is a lot thicker than 2.5mm^ will it be 6 or 10mm^ (and which should it be)?
Def a FAQ but can't find my last answer on the subject so here's a potted summary:
Electric showers almost universally have 2 elements and sets of switchgear to operate them. This allows high and low power settings but also permits the use of reasonably priced control switches (generally V3 type microswitches) to switch the current to each element rather than a huge clunker to switch the whole load.
Your low power operation suggests that only one element is operating for some reason. Although the elements can fail, the most common failure mode is the burning out of one or more of the microswitches.
To check what has gone, isolate the power from the unit, remove the cover and check the elements with a multimeter expecting a resistance of
10-14ohms on each healthy element. If these are ok then check the continuity of the microswitches at various switch positions.
Spares availability is good for Tritons but pricey. If the elements have failed then it may not be an economic repair but if the microswitches have gone then you can replace the lot for a tenner.
Post back what you find the fault and I'll give you some sources for the microswitches if required (not to hand atm).
32A is fine for a 9.5kW shower. Check the installed cable rating by comparing with the outer dimensions with those quoted on the detailed descriptions of each cable linked from here:
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cable should be used depends whether is passes through insulation or not, use this calculator to check:
This maybe of some help to you, the triton Caselona shower we had gave up outside warranty, I tried searching tritons website for install manuals to see if they made any with the same service entry points, well they dont seem to, my old triton has the mains feed on the lower left side and the water feed on the lower right side, I was about to give up and faced the possibility of altering one of the services and popping on a new tile or three.
I went to argos and got the Triton Madrid II 8.5kW as a replacement, when I looked inside its the same design as the old Caselona, saved me a bit of work, so if your old shower has the same service entry points as mine then the Madrid II should fit it. If not, have a look at the install manuals on tritons website.
The shower is probably rated at 9.5kW at 240V, so in reality could be running a bit less depending on local conditions.
A 32A breaker is unlikely to trip quickly at that load. Worth checking the cable size, although I would be surprised if it were 4mm^2 and from the description its not 2.5mm^2. 6mm^2 is probably ok for most installations, although local factors may make that not the case!
Using the links provided by John Rumm I think my cable is 6mm^. The measurements over the PVC sheath is 14mm x 7mm and the red & black insulation measure 5mm on the outside. Thanks Fred for your advice but I can't even see the microswitches never mind test them!! They are (according to a web forum) next to the temperature adjuster but I cannot see them. Bearing in mind the possible age of the unit I think better to change it.
Without changing the wiring (6mm^) or the breaker (32A) what is the largest Kw shower I can safely install, the existing shower (9.5Kw) has operated almost twice daily for at least the last 8 years without any tripping etc. Also with all this Part P c**p can I swap the unit DIY or do I need to have it 'professionally' installed? I know I can swap light fittings, swich plates, etc. like for like, but are showers covered differently due to water and electricity in the same unit?
I have a Triton T100E shower installed in 1988. It has packed up a couple of times since then and consequently a nice man from Triton has come and put in a new circuit board a couple of times. Also, I live in an area where limescale is a big problem and it was this that was causing my water to either run scalding hot or else cold. I put on a new shower head and that problem was solved. I descale regularly now.
Your shower is a Triton Bermuda, maybe you just need a new circuit board:
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found the company friendly and helpful. You could contact them about your problem.
Well the "correct" answer would be up to 32A - or about 7.5 kW. This is dictated by the MCB rating - the cable can probably take more however.
To decide the cable rating you need to consider the possible factors that will have an effect on its maximum current rating:
How long is the cable run? How is is mounted? (i.e. is is clipped to a surface, buried in plaster, buried in insulation etc? Does it pass through any areas of high ambient temperature? Is it closely bunched with other cables for any of the run?
The current carrying capacity table here:
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that in ideal circumstances (say clipped to a surface or chased into a plaster wall a 6mm^2 cable could carry 47A, or in the worst case (buried under a mountain of loft insulation say) it could be as low as
27A - and that assumes no other factors need to be accounted for.
Contrary to popular expectation, a 32A type B breaker will usually carry
40A indefinitely. Even 50A could take 15 mins to cause a trip. So tripping would not be expected at that sort of load.
You can quite legitimately swap a shower "like for like" - reusing the same cable and breaker so long as it is appropriate for the shower.
You have the minor complication that your breaker is not really appropriate for the shower however!
Personally I would uprate the breaker to something more appropriate (assuming the cable is still in spec)
Not especially - in that the original circuit design and protection is the most important bit which you are not changing.
The only thing in particular to watch with showers is maintain a good quality of workmanship on the connections - so the cable is stripped to the appropriate length without damaging the conductors, and the screws are done up tightly enough.
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