Sorta following on from the recent thread but on a different tack ..
Dad used to be involved in some BSI meetings and often saw a similar picture.
The UK delegation would be fighting tooth-and-nail to pin a standard down to be reasonable / useable etc whilst the likes of the French (for example) were happy for it to go through 'as-is' irrespective of how unreasonable or overstrict etc it might be.
The reason for this lack of involvement .. "we aren't going to take any notice of the std anyway ... "!
So is it *just* us that do this stuff by the book .. judging by what you see on these house makeover shows re work in France / Spain I think the answer is yes (and not just the diy'ers).
IMCE, this is very much a north/south issue or perhaps a cultural one in Europe.
Countries further north or with a Germanic language/cultural root tend to have a more proceduralised environment and usually do tend to work by and to follow rules.
Those further south with more of a Latin language/cultural root tend to have the rules, but frequently apply them just when something bad happens.
In that sense, it is not all that surprising, that the British, having a mixture of the two (plus others), tend to adopt something in between.
I was driving a mate recently (who had moved to Italy about 10 years ago) when the set of lights I was approaching turned to amber and I stopped (it would have been touch and go that I would have crossed the first set *just* as they turned red or not).
He had a bit of a panic and asked me 'not to do that again!'. He said that had I done that (stopped on an amber) in Nth Italy I would probably had had a car in my boot, in the South it would have been guaranteed!
So I wonder why this Nth / Sth (Europe) thing is though? And are there any stats to show the consequencies of 'not following the rules' is more dangerous (the point of all these rules / regs in the first place in most cases)?
I had a similar thing in Madeira (Portuguese). As I was approaching a ped crossing while it was red, I slowed down. Someone stepped out just as the lights changed to flashing amber, so I stayed slow to let them get across. The car behind tooted, *and* the bloke stepped back sharply and waved me to go through...
Would you happen to know what the actual rules are there Paul .. like here the peds generally have right_of_way whereas I believe in the States you can be done for 'jaywalking'?
Can't recall now what I knew at the time, but websites now say both that peds have priority once they are on the road (like here), and that this is widely ignored...
Apparently Portugal (Madeira is an island but very Portuguese) has the highest ped death rate in Europe...
In the U.S., AIUI, jaywalking is generally if you cross other than at an intersection or against a pedestrian signal light.
In the Netherlands, bicycles reign supreme. For example, in most instances, AIUI, if you are in a car wanting to turn right, a bike going straight on has right of way and you have to wait.
Oh sure. The best white knuckle ride I ever had was with a taxi driver in Milan who thought that traffic lights were more of a "policy" thing. However, he did believe in giving hand signals. The window was wound down the whole time and he gave many of them with the middle finger of his left hand.
It's a stereotype, of course, but I think that the main part is cultural.
The idea of having rules covering lots of things in many countries in continental Europe probably comes on the back of the civil legal systems which are based on the Napoleonic code or on the codified environments of the German speaking countries.
Scandinavia does not seem to be so influenced by that approach, there being more of a culture of the individual (but with humility).
The British system tends to be based on case law and hence I suspect that this has been the reason why the culture is not naturally in favour of regulation and legislation on things unless there is a need to do so.
In terms of impact, I suspect that there are a whole bunch of factors for a given issue.
Milan, I'd agree with. My job occasionally takes me to Italy (Rome/Milan/Turin) and Germany (and on only a couple of occasions to Spain, Madrid).
Of those, I think the Italians have the most (not the word... I'm looking for)... arrogance - take nothing away from them, typically good drivers (in that they miss things, and they can fit a 13' car into a
13'1" space on the motorway at 80mph. My outstanding memory was a trip to Turin where I was constantly being cut-up by learner drivers.
The Spanish, certainly city driving, appear oblivious to the dangers on the road. As a pedestrian you take your life into your own hands if you endeavour to cross the road. Memories there was of feet-against-car-panels being used by scooter-riders to negotiate the lanes of traffic in central Madrid.
The Germans, however, a completely different kettle of fish. Very competant on the roads (just god-awful Autobahns with two lanes - inner full of HGVs and the outer full of 200kmph Porsche; first time I took a couple of colleagues there comments akin to "bloody exocet coming up behind" were frequent. The strangest thing was in the city centres, where the local pedestrians refuse to cross until they get the green-man at the crossing. Nothing wierder than waiting, German beer beckoning from the pub over the road, with a bunch of Germans at a crossing and moving onto the road when the traffics past, to look around and realise you're on your own.
I always find the trip back from the airport home the most relaxing as, once again, you get used to the good old British motorway and predictable driving.
That's the same here! It also applies to pedestrians on a major road if you are turning off into the minor road. Most pedestrians will give way, cos the car reigns supreme, for now.
I try not to use the lights on crossings (but still cross there if convienient) .. nothing worse than pressing the button, seeing a gap and walking across then having the cars stop and wait for no reason after you have long gone?
On the beer subject .. is it the same 'cultural' thing re driving attitudes and us 'binge drinking' compared with the same Europeans?
A mate went to a German beer festival .. he noted that at the end a few thousand fairly drunk Germans quietly made their way home .. no fights, no burnt out cars, no pushed in shop windows .. ?
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