Migration of phone network to digital

[Rod Speed]

Doesnt explain why so many USA operations refuse to export.

[Andy Burns]

Doesn't sound like "finding a way around", just sounds like working within the new rules.

Historically the Dutch bend-over backwards to trade with anyone in very organised fashion, the were a number of inaccuracies in the page I quoted, maybe because dutch bike bits are ex-pat brits?

[alan_m]

Often companies will not deal with mail order to certain countries (including some in the EU/Europe) because the likelihood of the parcel reaching its destination isn't high.

It's becoming more common in the UK for (UK) companies to exclude some postal areas for large deliveries because the main courier companies don't operate in those areas. Highland of Scotland etc. If they will deliver to those areas there is often an expensive delivery surcharge.

[The Natural Philosopher]

When I was working with a small company that was exactly our experience. Italy? forget it. Whether the customers were lying or the parts never arrived, we never found out.

The strange thing is that I have no trouble importing from China, Australia, USA - although the tarriffs are horrendous - and I have had stuff from Germany, France and spain recently as well.

All online shopping of small items...

Its far more likely that if it is expats running a little business for

*bike parts* they are pointy headed lycra louts who hate brexit because they have been told to by their social media.

[Paul]

I would agree with this. A sales person tried to mislead a relative concerning how a VOIP-phone would work. In this country, during a power failure, the odds of a VOIP-phone working, are zero. And it's because the networking equipment has no power source. Only cellphones have proper engineering. And only because it was forced on them. We had the grid drop here once, for three days, and all of the politicians could not get dial tone on their handy, and I expect they were not too happy about that. That's why the cell towers got generators, each in a cute little shed.

Paul

[Andrew]

And it can be trained to go to the hospital even if the passenger is pissed, or whatever, just like the milkmans horse used to know the round.

[Andrew]

Do these people still watch black and white TV's ?, or cook over a coal-fired range, or use gas lights, or get their water from a well ?. Mostly, or entirely NO, so why are they stubbornly sticking with call equipment that is just an ancient as they are ?.

The argument that "it has worked for decades" doesn't wash or exchanges would still be full of strowger switches and racks of mechanical meters.

Remember that in 1947 Bevan actually thought that the cost of the NHS would come down as people became healthier !. No-one foresaw that 70 yearS later there would be 12 million pensioners, where

560,000 are over 85 and 15,000 over 100, and the over 85 group are collectively bankrupting the NHS and the economy with their demands for eye-wateringly expensive drugs and treatments that did not exist at the point that hit 65 so they have paid zero in taxes and NI towards those development costs. And since the most expensive drugs and treatments are developed in the USA anyway, they have even less right to expect to benefit from it.

[Andrew]

Well some of that IS true. Many EU based companies will no longer supply to *individuals* in the UK because of all the new red tape and beurocracy

[Adrian]

In message <um42jk$1iukc$ [e-mail], Andrew [e-mail] writes

I've got a colour TV, electric hob/oven and lights. Water is from the main, and I'm on VOIP.

However, most would agree that the above are improvements on what you mention, but I suspect for many people, they don't see any improvement in moving to VOIP over POTS. Some of those who've done their homework may see it as a step backwards.

Adrian

[Andrew]

No his medical condition (which might be the result of smoking) would have killed him, as it WILL at some point. Stop blaming the phone system, or any other side issue.

[Andrew]

Until the switch to digital voice is complete, scammers will continue to be able to spoof their identity using caller ID.

Slamming the door on these scum is far more important (and cost effective) than an insignificant group of moaning minnie end-of-lifers

[alan_m]

This isn't ancient equipment from decades ago that is consigned to the scrap heap overnight. It's relatively simple to keep it working but the telephone companies are neglecting to do so despite industry assurance that they would for vulnerable customers.

I wonder if you would think the same if you purchased a central heating controller/thermostat or some home security based on a cloud control and the company decided in a year's time that it no longer wanted to support it leaving you with expensive electronic junk.

[Rod Speed]

alan_m [e-mail]> wrote

Havent seen that very often, but I mostly get stuff using the main sellers like aliexpress, bangood, temu, amazon and ebay rather than importing directly.

We don't have that in my country, the main shippers always have a local delivery operation that they use for the local delivery and Australia Post delivers everywhere and is mostly what most use.

IKEA did use a different operation for a sinngle fitted bottom sheet but when the operation they use didnt even bother to try to deliver it, sent another via Aust Post.

[John Armstrong]

Indeed, and not only the highlands of Scotland. Last year I was looking for two headset-worn radio mics. I found what I was looking for from a company based in York. While ordering online, I noticed that they were going to charge me excess delivery because I live in "a remote area".

I got on the phone to them and pointed out that I lived half a mile from Dundee city centre. "Sorry, that's what our carrier tells us, nothing we can do about it", was their helpful reply. I told them to forget it, wished them good morning, and went back online.

I found the same items from a company based in Germany. No excess delivery charge, and in fact a slightly cheaper price.

[Rod Speed]

They may well nol see it, but its there anyway, most obviously with the speed of the data when the copper pair from the cabinet no longer needs to handles POTS

New Zealand chose to keep POTS, Australia binned it and gets higher speeds because it binned POTS.

And even with fiber, its obviously cheaper to not have a copper pair and the assosiated maintenance if there is no longer any POTS service, just a VOIP service.

And it makes no sense to keep the massive POTS exchanges working properly just so that they do provide a more reliable phone service when the mains is no longer available for a while now that almost everyone has a mobile now.

Only those ignorant of the basics.

[Rod Speed]

It is even easier to do that with VOIP.

VOIP doesnt do that.

[Rod Speed]

alan_m [e-mail]> wrote

But still requires considerable manpower and there is also the cost of maintaining the copper pairs to the individual houses and businesses. VOIP makes a lot more sense.

And it isnt just the exchanges either, most of the newer estates have the POTS service provided by RIMS and CMUXes in cabinets out in the estates with fibre optic back to the main exchange and once the internet is done over fiber, those all have to be maintained, just to provide a phone service. Makes no sense.

Because it makes no sense to do that. In fact in Australia, the entire exchange is being gutted and the significant building is being used for something else. And the RIMs and CMUXes are being removed.

Perfectly possible to handle those using some form of UPS or battery backup of the NTP in the customer's house and it makes no sense to keep the entire POTS system up to scratch forever for those individuals.

That has always been a risk you take with that type of system.

[alan_m]

On 23/12/2023 19:30, Rod Speed wrot

Are you deliberately missing the point?

The solution is to provide an interface to Fibre To The Premises and VOIP. This is the solution now in my mothers property. It doesn't require the old exchanges and copper to be maintained.

The telephone companies were meant to ensure anyone with one of these emergency services were not left without it after they changed the system. This is not happening! Vulnerable people are not even being told that their existing (emergency) equipment may no longer work or they may have to pay additional charges (or get social services to pay) for different equipment.

As mentioned above its not about keeping POTs but the telephone companies ensuring a working emergency system for the vulnerable. It's not just about being able to dial 999 or 112 on a mobile or VOIP line.

There may be many solutions maybe also using just the mobile network.

This thread isn't necessarily about the technology but more about telecom companies just informing (vulnerable) customers that their system will be changed on a certain date but then failing to tell them about the possible consequences and leaving them without (non 999/112) emergency services that don't work.

[Tim Streater]

Senility is ...

[Rod Speed]

alan_m [e-mail]> wrote

Nope, that was rubbing your nose in the fact that keeping a POTS service makes no sense at all now because of the massive effort involved just for the few who do need that sort of service because they are very disabled.

No interface is required.

Mad way to do things and isnt keeping a POTS service as you were saying is the best way to go.

But keeping a POTS service does. That is what was being discussed.

That's a different matter entirely.

And why shouldnt they have to pay for what extra is required to provide an emergency service ?

No emergency service is free with your POTS service.

What I said earlier on in the thread.

Then why did you mention the retention of the exchanges ?