microwave oven broken



no mfr does it on an ongoing basis. Substandard batches of goods are hardly newsworthy though.

Its not hysterical, its a statement of fact.

I didnt know they collected stats on it
NT
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wrote:

No, merely uninformed opinion.

What do you think you pay them for?
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Since I've had nice sparks from such things despite them sitting longer than your 1 day, how can this be 'opinion'?
Your notion that resistors almost never fail is naive. In real life they're subject to conditions that do cause failures at times, they're not kept within all the conditions of the data sheet tests. Vibration, voltage overloads, physical shock, mechanical stress, these thing happen irl, and failures follow.

That doesnt even address the question of how they collect stats on microwave deaths, and whether it covers all cases.
NT
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wrote:

I haven't come across too many domestic microwave ovens operating in hostile environments (unless of course you count children as a hostile environment) but that is why MIL-HDBK-217F is so much more useful than data sheets as it models such excursions from the norm. Using the ground mobile model - the microwave in a cross country vehicle used cross country - the reliability does, as you say, drop. The MTBF goes down to merely 4,000,000 hours

They gather information on all industrial and commercial accidents. Until about two years ago they were also funded to collect domestic accident information from fire, hospital and ambulance service reports. While it is always possible for things to slip through it remains a fact that screwdrivers have killed more people in accidents than microwave ovens.
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Do you think all chinese manufacturers adhere to such standards at all times?
More importantly, we have 65 million people in the UK and IIRC around 20 million households. So say around 20 million domestic microwaves. Each one of those is plugged in 8760 hours per year. Now, how many discharge resistor failures would you expect to see per year in the UK in domestic microwaves using your figures?

1. Could that be because so few people are unwise eough to repair them without discharging the cap 2. This kind of foolishness would be found outside of insustry rather than in it. 3. Amulance and fire brigade aren't always called for a dead person.
NT
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wrote:

It isn't a manufacturing standard but a method of predicting failure.

Now I know for sure you don't understand probability and risk. Almost every week in the UK someone wins a multi-million pound prize in the lottery. Almost every week in the UK more than one person dies, often unexpectedly, while going to buy a ticket to enable them to win that prize.
Should we ban the National Lottery on the grounds it kills so many people?
Assume your figure of 20million microwaves is correct. The hours on figure of 8760 is completely irrelevant as the capacitor is only energised when the oven is cooking, a averaged figure of about 100 hours is probably more realistic but let's be real pessimists and say each and every oven operates for 1 hour a day so about 400 hours per year. A total of 8,000,000,000 per year
In the UK it is quite likely a dozen or so microwave ovens have faulty drain resistors. Let's be real pessimist though and assume 100. That gives a one in 200,000 chance of your oven having this particular fault.
Let's further make the extraordinarily improbable assumption that working on such an oven will invariably be fatal so that 1 in 200,000 is your chance of death.
Compare that with the chances of you dying in a road accident of about 1 in 17,000 or the chances of death in pregnancy of about 1 in 8,200. I wonder how many husbands mention to their wives that pregnancy is nearly 25 times more lethal than repairing a microwave oven without precautions?
The reason the death rate from microwave oven repairs is zero is because the chances of one happening are very remote.

Nope.
You obviously have little experience of industry.

I'm not aware of any instance where people lying dead on the floor by the side of a smoking microwave have simply been placed in a relatives car and delivered to the undertaker for burial but any sudden and unexpected death requires a coroners inquest. The results of inquests also went to the HSE.
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On 1 Nov, 13:53, Peter Parry wrote:

Probably not many as even though firtling about inside an electrical appliance is interesting and enjoyable, most men find trying to make babies even more so.
Owain
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every such assessment is based on certain specs or characteristics of the component under assessment. Why you assume all manufactured leak resistors conform to it I dont know. It does seem rather optimistic.

Straw man.

8 billion over 4 million = 2,000. I forget the other figure you had, but it still assumes all drain Rs are to spec, which for chinese mfred goods is a bit optimistic.

but youre still making assumptions I simply dont believe are valid. And the conclusions you reach just dont tally with real life experience.

sigh
And I'm sure that all polish, african etc workers here follow all laws to the letter. And involve the authorities when its the last thing they need.
You're trying to asses this, but just making too many assumptions.
And even if we went with your figure, its still dumb to not put a screwdriver across the terminals first. 4 seconds of trivial action to avoid the risk of death.
NT
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I've never paid more than 5 for a magnetron. The 70 story is typical repairman foolishness, and they wonder why theyre going out of business. You can get them at many local dumps, complete with free microwave oven.
NT
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On 30 Oct, 18:37, NT wrote:

I got a free cyclonic vacuum out of the wheelibin this week, flex had frayed at the plug, rewired it and it seems to work (as well as Tesco own-brand vacuums ever work, they are generally rubbish)
Owain
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wrote:

I think another reply said that Panasonic ones were dearer than others. Whether there is a good reason or whether I am paying for the name I don't know. Each repairman wants to look at the machine and charge for their time doing so, so it is impossible to shop around for the best quote without paying a fortune in fees.
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Dump operators dont charge any more for panasonics. If your repair people want to charge you for a quote AND charge you 70 for a magnetron, you're looking in the wrong place. The old model of the local repair shop that always fits new parts is just not a workable business model any more. Try someone that works from home or a small workshop and routinely fits used parts. Sometimes you'l find shops that work like this in relatively run down areas. Get a free quote or walk.
NT
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wibbled on Friday 30 October 2009 15:34

2-5kV stored in a big capacitor with enough energy to kill you... It's a manageble risk, if you know it's there.
--
Tim Watts

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IIRC it wasn't the connector lug making poor contact to the Mag but the crimp to the wire that was lose causing intermittent no filament. I used to augment the crimp with solder as a preventative measure.
--
Graham.

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I doubt it.
I was involved with the repair of these some time ago. All these Inverter System models are bad news when they fail IMHO In my experience the symptoms you describe will probably be the Magnetron, or the inverter PCB, or both. (Frankly there is not a lot else in there!)
The magnetron in these models are run very hard and generally fail by overheating and cracking one or both of the ring magnets. The "correct" 1000W magnetron costs a lot more than the generic ones from CPC etc.
If the Inverter is faulty, the situation is even worse, I would normally repair a PCB like that at component level, but at the time I was working on them the components that had failed, two IGBT transistors, could not be sourced for love or money, and my only option was to get a new one on an exchange basis from Panny for 90 trade IIRC. I think we wrote a few off rather than repair them.
I suggest your replacement microwave has a nice heavy conventional transformer:-)
--
Graham.

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IIRC at the time we bought it Panasonic's marketing sold the inverter as being better than a transformer, though I can't remember why now. Is there any particular make you recommend?
Thanks.
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