Marquee power Feedback - and more questions

Hi All,

As some of my regular readers will remember, I was I/C of Electrics and PA at our church weekend camp recently and a bit concerned about only having 45A main breaker (Turned out i'd remembered wrong - It's only 40A! but we never had an issue.

Anyhow, somebody said the mains distribution was a bit of a mess (a cable with blue 16A connector on and a 13 A cable reel both brought to the marquee and then distributed around using domestic 13A cable reels).

I said that was about as good as it gets, but then got to thinking, at the other camp i'm involved with we generally use something similar to

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And then run 16A style cables out to the various points where power is required and just convert to 13A outlets at the very end.

I asked if there might be some budget to buy the necessary "Board" and cables, but looking at the above it seems my guesstimate was seriously under what it might cost.

Does anyone know of similar (reasonable quality) units at a lower price point?

I suppose CPC or TLC might be my friend, but i'm not sure what to search for.

TIA

Chris

Reply to
cpvh
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How often is this needed? If only once in a while, I'd be inclined to hire from a film or theatrical etc lighting company. Other benefit is it will be tested before despatch.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Hi Dave, it's only once or twice a year, but even at the prices i've seen I think we'd soon re-coup the capital cost (can't see the lighting company w anting to write invoices for less than £150 even if we could peruade them to deal with such a small customer. But I will look into it.

Cheers

Chris

Reply to
cpvh

Perhaps in exchange some limited use of the church hall?

Reply to
Fredxxx

I've hired from a film lighting company for a garden party, and the charges seemed pretty reasonable to me. Pro cables and fittings designed for such work are pretty robust and have a long life. Also, 150 quid won't buy very much high current flexible cable. Which would also need space to store. however, I am in London with a good choice of such places reasonably locally. Transport costs could be high.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

You could make your own similar box for a lot less.

Reply to
ARW

Hi Adam,

That is about the descision I had come to.

Thanks

Chris

Reply to
cpvh

It should be a piece of piss. Do you need really the RCD protection and individual MCBs in the box? If the box is suppled via a 16A RCD protected supply then you clearly do not.

A waterproof box with one 16A waterproof surface mounted plug and 4 x 16A surface mounted sockets is all that is needed. Do your own risk assessment as to the quality of your work. Less than £50. Good luck with it.

Reply to
ARW

Agreed but needs a bit of thought. IIRC the supply is 40 A and presumably has to be extened to the marquee where it will be distributed.

Think I'd go for Ceeform 63 A connectors and cable for that extension and rely on the supply cutout. Then have the distribution box 63 A Ceeform input and 6 x 16 A individually RCBO protected outlets. This gives diversity should kit on one feed leak a bit and trip it's RCD. Local distribution using 16 A ceeform with 16 > 13 adapters on the end.

Not sure what to do about Protective Earth. Particularly if the 63 A extension is long, FSVO "long".

All this stuff would be available from a film/tv lighting supplier as has been mentioned.

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Niether site wants to play properly with my browser, so can't tell what the hire costs are. There are other smaller companies all over the country.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Thanks for your thoughts Dave, I am having similar thoughts........

The 40A MCB is up the track and feeds a sort of Chalet type afair which has a split load CU doing all the usual domestic stuff and presently also havi ng a 16A Ceeform for the Marquee feed.

I am thinking of getting this upgraded to 32A Ceeform (& MCB)(don't search for 32A on Google kiddies, the strangest things come up! !:^*>)) and runni ng a Ceeform 32A over to the Marquee (mostly, this will run with lower than 16A through it, but i'd like to have the option to draw more if we wanted to, so am thinking 6mm will be the way to go for the cable for a 50 metre r un)).

This would then plug (or rather socket onto!) a plug that goes to the input on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each feeding a 16A Ceeform socket (4 to be used to run a 16A lead to each corner of the marquee, and

2 for lighting and 2 spare) There would also be another 16A MCB feeding a number of 13A double sockets (probably 2) for any equipment which needed to be powered where the board is (Probably attached to one of the main poles of the marquee at about 4 foot off the floor).

Questions?

Is 6mm for the main feed adequate? or overkill?

If I go for 6mm and get it in one length, will I be able to lift it when it 's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?

Would I be able to lift them?

TIA

Chris

Reply to
cpvh

You might have to use a TT install with two RCDs as per a caravan set up. All points noted in your post and I like the alternative view.

Reply to
ARW

It sould be fine for 32A. I would have to do calcs for 63A and I would like to see calcs for 32A.

I cannot answer that one as I do not know you:-). The maximum I can carry up

3 flights of stairs is 100m of 16mm T&E (well 6 rolls of it in individual runs) and I consider that to be hardish work (it's easier than pulling in 180mm 4 core SWA)

Cheers

Reply to
ARW

Mainly bus timetables and a film from 2007 - they do say google tailors their results depending on your previous searches :-)

Reply to
Andy Burns

as a split load CU doing all the usual domestic stuff and presently also ha ving a 16A

h for 32A on Google kiddies, the strangest things come up! !:^*>)) and run ning a Ceeform 32A over to the Marquee (mostly, this will run with lower th an 16A through it, but i'd like to have the option to draw more if we wante d to, so am thinking 6mm will be the way to go for the cable for a 50 metre run)).

ut on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each feeding a 16A Ceefo rm socket (4 to be used to run a 16A lead to each corner of the marquee, an d 2 for lighting and 2 spare) There would also be another 16A MCB feeding a number of 13A double sockets (probably 2) for any equipment which needed to be powered where the board is (Probably attached to one of the main pole s of the marquee at about 4 foot off the floor).

it's coiled? or would it be better as two 25 metre lengths?

BS 7909 is probably worth a look...

Costs start to add up fast, for how many uses a year?

6mm X 3 core HO7 RNF typically around 4 quid a meter, 50m cable= 200 + co nnectors.

Plus distribution and additional `borrowable, cables, and of course, testin g.

30m 63A SP cable 35 quid a week, save a lot using 32A distribution.

63A >8 X 16A MCB protected 40 quid a week.

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Find any of the theatre/AV suppliers,( film and TVsuppliers can be ,er, exp ensive) will be able to help you with similar gear and are used to shipping hires around via courier.

Reply to
Adam Aglionby

presently

16 A isn't a lot when you hab urns/kettles involved... B-)

the >> input on a split load CU. This would have 8 16A MCBs each feeding a

I don't see any RCD protection. This is outside possibly in the wet. In the day job any 16 A feed to anywhere is individually RCD protected.

Longest 63 A I see at work might be 25 m. You might be able to move it but carrying any distance would be a sack truck job really. Generally these cables are kept in the load carrier section of the generator, hoiked out onto the ground and then the end and cable dragged to where it needs to be. The coil is rarely moved more than a few feet.

Only mentioned 63 A so as to be more than ample to cope with the full

40 A supply over an unknown distance. Volt drop and earth loop impedance. If one went for two TT installs, it would mandate 100 mA time delayed RCDs. or measuring the spikes performamce at each use.

Now we know the expected load and distance I think a 32 A MCB 32 A cable for the marquee feed with individual 16 A RCBO's for each 16 A distribution outlet would be fine. Means your electrically leaky urn doesn't trip the whole lot off. As Adam says do the sums for the main

32 A feed cable.

I knew that hire would be cheap for just cables and distribution but that is cheap cheap. B-) A big advantage is that it also shifts/shares the responsibilty of testing/maintenance to a "professional organisation" who one ought to be able to rely on to do things properly.

Having said that I'd be a tad wary of smaller AV suppliers. Observation has shown that they don't have knowledge much above "just plug as many 13 A plugs into as many 4 way extensions (with exposed inner cores) as required". Loading, earth loop impedance, RCD protection? Wozzat?

A theatre/PA/lighting company would be a better bet, a place that hires out PA systems and lighting rigs that would eat a 13 A plug top in the quiescent state. B-)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Quite. And you don't have to find somewhere to store it all.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Aye I was thinking that but it opens another can of worms...

Thank you, I'm not a spark but do keep my eyes open about how things are done in temporary installations (TV Outside Broadcasts) and around event marquees etc, if only so I feel safe plugging in mains kit.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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