Hi We are redesigning our downstairs living area, the only feasible option is to fit a saniflo macerator onto the downstairs loo, a couple of questions, 1) The literature says 22mm discharge pipe is this just standard 22mm pipe? 2) how is the pipe connected to the soil stack? do you use a strap boss or does it need sealing in any way.
any other tips /advice (constructive) would be appreciated
Thanks
Andy D
Not THAT constructive, but contains a pointer or two...
If you think a macerator is a feasible option, you have a problem already.
The consensus of opinion here is that they are not 'fit for purpose'..anything that goes down the bog accidentally 'sanitary towel, top off a Biro, top off a razor' will jam it, and require a shitty piece of dismantling and servicing.
The only installation I know lasted yes than a year before shit was welling into the shower tray, took 6 months to find a plumber willing to touch it, and is now relegated to 'emergency midnight pee only'.
Others will have similar stories.
Frankly, dig up the floor and the ground and fit a new soil pipe..
However a strap boss is not going to make it any worse than it already is. Glued on.
That's a bit like saying the only feasible option when redesigning the kitchen is to put no waste pipe on the sink.
What are you intending to use the loo for? If it is there as decoration or to help in selling the house (every house has to have one) 22mm will be fine, particularly if you dislike the purchasers and/or have no conscience.
If you intend it to be used by children or females or visitors then any idea that you might have that a Saniflo, especially with 22mm pipe, will do anything other than block very frequently is a celebration of advertising hype over reality. 40mm will block slightly less frequently and the Sanibest is supposedly a bit better than the Saniflo, although that's a bit like saying smallpox is better than rabies.
There are only two things which Saniflos can cope with, human waste and toilet tissue. Anything else blocks them. That includes cat litter, wool strands, sanitary towels, dental floss, Q Tips, cotton wool and any number of things children put in toilets. It is essential therefore to make the whole installation easily removable.
If you really must then yes, it is standard copper or PVC pipe. It is essential to avoid bends as much as possible and any 90 deg bends should be formed from gently bent tubing or two 45 deg angles and a short length of pipe in between them. Don't forget you still need a continuous fall on the horizontal portions of the waste pipe no matter what size it is.
The device is going to block - and its internal flap valves leave the discharge pie full of effluent which backflows when you disconnect the main unit. When it blocks the toilet bowl is also going to be left full of waste and water up to the brim (they never block just _after_ emptying and the water goes in even if it isn't going out). Therefore the floor needs to be sealed and waterproof as you are going to have to scoop that lot out into a bucket. Smooth stainless steel is a good flooring material to use.
When Saniflo say "The Saniflo unit and all its connections should be easily accessible for possible maintenance / removal" they really do mean it. You are going to become very friendly with your Saniflo and making sure the pump unit and (depending on how you fit it) the toilet pan are easily removable is essential. Quick release fastening rather than screws are ideal. The "removal" bit in the Saniflo instructions refers I think to the time in the not to distant future when you get tired of scooping out organic waste and cotton wool mix and throw the damn thing away.
It is also essential to make the drain pipe capable of being easily dismantled so you can drain it when the blockage occurs. The must common failures are the macerator stalling (cotton wool is a favourite for this) or the discharge pipe blocking at a bend (hence the need to minimise bends during installation).
If you are completely unhinged and put the thing in pumping upwards then blockages are even more frequent and it is sensible to design the bottom joint such that it can be dismantled and the effluent which will come gushing out after you enjoy a few hours poking bits of wire into the pipe can be directed mainly into a bucket rather than entirely onto you and the toilet floor.
Installing a continuous length of solvent welded PVC pipe or soldered copper without provision for draining the outflow pipe would be even more unwise than the decision to use a Saniflo in the first place.
Strap, but on the odd times when it is working the waste comes out and some velocity and splashes around the soil stack with force so the rubber seal does need to be a good fit.
On 2 Nov 2006 00:40:51 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@tesco.net wrote this:-
I see that some have already had their say. Feel free to check their postings on this and other subjects and decide how much credence you wish to give their opinions. However, I know of a number of such installations (including one in the family, in a house largely occupied by persons of the female persuasion) which have worked well for many years.
Anyway, the pipework is just standard 22mm pipe, copper or solvent welded plastic (it needs to be able to cope with the pressure). If it is going to rise then the rise should all be at the start of the run, followed by a gentle fall to the stack. There are limits on the number of bends and ninety degree elbows are not a good idea. Beyond a certain length increase the pipe diameter. For connecting to the stack use a suitable boss for the type of pipe being used.
digging up the ground floor is not an option for various reasons, the pipe run will be straight with just 1 bend as it leaves the house, so i will put some kind of access point on there. Strangely judging by some of the posts i have not one but two rarities, femails that can understand simple instructions : )
ref connection to the stack i've never seen connectors for 22mm pipe, any ideas where i may get one?
I have installed a rival's device. It does require 32mm, rather than 22mm. However, it has a feature (beyond lower price) that makes this worth it, IMO.
It is called a "Sanisplit". The device is in two parts. The holding tank and plumbing connections are in one part. The motor and macerator blades are in a detachable part, with rubber seals separating the two. The two parts are easily separated with minimal leakage and no need to disconnect plumbing.
Once separated (a job which takes all of 20 seconds), the business end can be hosed off in the back garden, or they do a cheap exchange service, which is free if they determine a fault in the first year or three.
The main issue with keeping macerator toilets working reliably is to avoid certain types of user. Children (will use an entire bog roll and a peach core in one sitting), visitors (will completely ignore your request not to use it as a bin) and women (will dispose of vampires' teabags despite requests to desist).
Christian.
On 2 Nov 2006 05:55:49 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@tesco.net wrote this:-
If my memory is not faulty I noticed one in a large orange and white tin shed a few months ago.
Does this mean that they will accept them back complete with shit inside?
I wonder who has the job of handling goods inwards and service in this company... I guess that it must be whichever salesman is most behind quota that month.
Christian.
On 2 Nov 2006 05:55:49 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@tesco.net wrote this:-
I take it that the pipe will run "horizontally", with just a small fall, to the stack. That is ideal as it avoids vertical rises and so, if the unit ever needs to be dismantled, largely avoids the runback "problem" (which is far less of a problem than the antis claim and if one is worried about it is easily prevented by a suitable valve, with the handle/wheel removed obviously).
A few of the Saniflo range, including the Saniflo itself, were not able to develop enough pressure for vertical pumping and so limited to such "horizontal" runs or drops. However, I think this restriction has now been removed, though it will say on their web site.
I wouldn't bother. Small bore pumping is somewhat less prone to pipe blockages than traditional gravity drainage. I would use a bending spring (or pipe bender) to put an easy bend in at the appropriate point.
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