Fitting a downstairs toliet - soil pipe run and toliet rat worries

[SR]

Moving to a new house, and since aged mother has difficulty climbing stairs, I am considering having a downstairs toilet fitted. I have decided to extended the back porch to make ample room for a downstairs wc and shower room.

Now a couple of things that I need advice on. First is connecting the toilet to the sewer. The existing first floor toilet is connected to the soil pipe running down the side elevation (it's a semi, so there are three elevations - front, side and back).

The new toilet I want to fit is around the back. Initial inspections suggest the new soil pipe will have to run along the back wall, then round to the side to join with the existing pipe. The problem is that there wouldn't be enough slope (total length to the existing soil pipe is approx 40 feet). Obviously, we could dig to get the required slope, but we're hoping to avoid that.

We're having a site survey done to see if there are any other pipes closer by that we can "tap" into. If it turns out that there aren't any alternatives, are there any Sani Flow type systems that could do the job of shifting all that waste 40ft along a largely horizontal pipe?

Is a chemical toilet viable - don't like the idea of emptying it out every so whenever.

My other worry about having a downstairs toilet is the risk of "toilet rats" - i.e. rats being able to get into the house via the downstairs toilet soil pipe and u-bend. What defences are available against this particular scourge?

Regards,

Saeed

SR_NG 786

[Forestfan]

Read this before you go the Saniflow route, still makes me chuckle 9 years after first reading it.

[Jim Alexander]

110mm pipe can be installed to a 1:80 slope. Would that work? Provide rodding access at each change of direction in case it blocks but then with Sani Flow it will definately block and be harder to unblock.

Not sure about the rats. You got weekly or fortnightly bins?

Jim A

[Lurch]

On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:41:51 +0100, SR mused:

am considering having

ample room for a

the sewer. The

elevation (it's a

the new soil pipe will

existing pipe. The problem

is approx 40 feet).

How far off having the required slope is it? How much would you have to raise the toilet by to get the required slope? Quick head calculations say about 6" which isn't that great, especially if you raise the floor in the whole thing and ramp the access if this is a possibility.

that we can "tap"

Flow type systems that

Any Saniflo can technically do anythign horizontal as they're designed to do vertical runs. However, I'd steer well clear of anything Saniflo if at all possible, I'd go for for the digging option everytime.

[Owain]

If you've got underfloor space you could have a composting toilet.

I suspect that there are far easier routes into your house than through the U-bend.

Owain

[Cicero]

================================== Following on from suggestions about gaining a bit of extra height, it's worth considering raising the height of the toilet itself, which would of course gain a bit of extra fall in the waste pipe. The reason for this suggestion is that a higher toilet is often more convenient for people who are a bit frail and unsteady. The standard toilet is usually about 16" high but the special toilet seats / frames provided by social services can often be 4" or more higher. Social Services will always advise but your mother will have her own opinion on this especially if she already uses a 'high chair' in the lounge.

Cic.

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:41:51 +0100 someone who may be SR wrote this:-

am considering having

ample room for a

What sort of shower?

How will you get hot water to the basin? How is water heated for the house?

What sort of drainage system?

the sewer. The

elevation (it's a

Typically a sewer runs up the drive and sometimes round the back to take kitchen waste. Alternatively the kitchen waste goes out of the side.

that we can "tap"

Flow type systems that

If a gravity connection to a sewer is going to ne difficult/impossible/expensive then macerators are certainly worth considering. If the above does not apply then there is obviously less to go wrong with a gravity connection and it doesn't consume any electricity.

One of the interesting things about plumbing is the way it brings the "it will never work" bunch out of the woodwork, loudly telling everyone that the new fangled invention will cause all sorts of problems. This bunch were much in evidence when the new fangled idea of toilets inside houses was introduced and later on they were much in evidence when the new fangled single pipe drainage system was introduced. You must decide how much attention to pay to them about macerators, I pay them no attention at all.

If you are considering a macerator then don't forget that the pipe run can be very different, for example up from the toilet and horizontally above the ceiling to the existing stack, or along the skirting. A long run outside is probably not a good idea as it might freeze in winter.

There is/was a large web site for the various models of Saniflo which explains the piping requirements and pumping distances of each one. It depends on model, but they should all do what you ask. One thing to watch is that vertical rises should be before horizontal runs.

As has been said, a composting one is better.

i.e. rats being able

defences are available

They would find it difficult to go a long way down a 22mm pipe and then through the non return valve connected to a macerator. With gravity drainage it tends to be food waste flushed down sinks that they like, though they will then explore.

[Andy Cap]

I just feel sorry for the neighbours who have to put up with the infernal buzzing through the wall, every time someone uses the loo.

I'm grateful for the day when my neighbour finally gave up trying to keep the thing serviceable and installed a proper 2nd toilet on the ground floor.

Andy

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:48:37 +0100 someone who may be Andy Cap wrote this:-

No infernal buzzing, even through the internal walls, with the ones I have seen in close quarters.

[Andy Hall]

How close?

You've got one, haven't you?

[Bob Eager]

Probably because they're broken! :-)

[Keith]

In message , SR writes

Remember that this work can be zero-rated for VAT, just a simple declaration from you that your mother has a disability.