In message , tim... writes
Those were the days! I regularly drove from St. Albans to Uckfield (near Lewes) to commission a water filtration plant. The quickest route was through central London: Hyde Park Corner, Park Lane, Vauxhall Bridge and out on the A23.
I would not dream of doing it today, never mind the diesel car!
I said decent.
Those as we know have been 'adjusted' to 'show global warming' and they weren't the best to start with.
How can we mitigate something that we don't even know is happening? Assuming it is, How can we mitigate something that we don't even know is a bad thing? Assuming it is, How can we mitigate if we don't know what is causing it? Assuming we do, How can we mitigate if there is essentially nothing to be done?
Well no.
I am reminded of the man tearing up newspapers and throwing them out of the train window.
"My good friend, why are you rearing up newspapers and throwing them out of the window?" "Keeps the elephants down" "But my good man, there are no elephants" "Damned effective isn't it".
If the wherethefuckarewe tribe don't do their ceremonial dance every night, the sun wont come up tomorrow. Fortunately they always do.
and if the road is wet, you get out of the "spray zone" quicker
Why does an extra runway mean more car traffic? The new Elizabeth line will take the passengers into London.
You'll get fined if you go into a bus lane to let them past.
Nonsense. Obstructing a bus is a billion times less serious than obstructing an ambulance. A camera might do me for it, but I'd just get it quashed.
Let them go in the bus lane instead then.
G.Harman
There might be a bus in the way further along, but you can pull into it and stop, letting the ambulance past in the car lane.
It's also illegal to drive on the pavement, but I do it every time I see an ambulance. Don't you? Emergencies override normal laws.
In your dreams!
Why do you bother involving yourself in these conversations as it's obvious *you think* there is one rule for you and one rule for everyone else (or there are no rules at all)?
Irrespective of the circumstances, it is illegal to do anything illegal (road traffic laws wise we are talking about here) under any circumstances unless explicitly instructed to by a uniformed Police officer.
Drive on? No. Mount to make some room and stop ... possibly. Even driving across the pavement to access your own property without the use of a proper dropped kerb / crossover is against the rules (there may be some exceptions, like service vehicles).
Whilst there is a good chance that with the right evidence you may be able to get an offence squashed, the RULES state that the RULES continue to apply, even during an emergency situation ... otherwise we would have idiots like you thinking they could take the rules into their own hands and potentially make matters worse.
And don't confused your illegal activity not being spotted, or being seen but a 'blind eye turned' or a Police officer using their discretion ... with something being legal.
I'll not be correcting you again as there is obviously no point.
Cheers, T i m
I don't doubt that rules state that you can't break laws even to get out the way of the emergency vehicle. In my mind that is irrelevant.
What matters is whether the rules *should* say this? I agree with JWS that emergencies override everything else. If I see a rule that I think is wrong, I see nothing wrong with debating whether the rule should be there or whether it should be changed.
Too many people say "that's what the law says" without questioning whether it's a *good* law and the *right* law. I'm not saying that I would move into a bus lane or got through red traffic lights or increase my speed if there was nowhere for an emergency vehicle to get past, but only because of the fear of being prosecuted, not because I would think I was doing wrong; indeed I think by breaking the law I was doing right if it let the emergency vehicle get there sooner.
I would make sure I only broke the law if I could see no alternative was of letting the ambulance past, and in the expectation that I would be asked to substantiate why I did it, but I would expect to be believed and for the law to be flexible enough to apply common sense.
Ideally I'd like emergency vehicles (via a tannoy) to direct traffic in front of them what that want it to do to make way for them, so as to remove any uncertainty and doubt.
You would be right to not doubt that fact. ;-)
Well, then you might be onto a 'sticky wicket'.
Yes they should and I'll explain why in a while.
Then you could both be considered a liability ITRW.
Agreed, that's democracy for you.
They do indeed ... and some also question the laws and sometimes have them changed / amended.
Quite, you and most the population then. ;-)
Of course, if all things go to plan, but what if in pulling though the lights you cause an accident? Do you think the rules should allow that ... you could maybe kill a motorcyclist in the hope that the 3 seconds you shave off an ambulance journey helps someone who passes out in shopping centre get seen quicker (and sent home)?
But they maybe you haven't worked in a local authority manning a bus lane camera and 'heard it all before'? Do you think you could ask the ambulance driver if he would be a witness that you only broke the law for him / her?
Unless it was a uniformed Police officer I don't believe they would have the authority, just as any emergency vehicle driver would have to account for their actions. should something go wrong? This also includes *not* chasing potential criminals in cars or on bikes if there are signs that in doing so could put others at risk. I'm pretty sure that whilst they wouldn't care much of a real crim takes themselves out whilst being chased by a Police car it's just they would have a real load of paperwork (and worse) if they also took out a bus stop full of innocent people for someone who had stolen a 4 pack of beer.
Now don't get me wrong, I have already said that I do all I can to ensure emergency vehicles can get though as unhindered as possible and I (personally) may also push the limits under extreme circumstances but unlike JWS, I am under no illusion that I don't have the authority to break the rules and therefore must be willing to pay the price if I do. There may be no magic wand or 'get out of jail card' should a potentially innocent act actually make matters worse.
That's why the rules are there ... not for when good intentioned things go right, but for when they don't.
Cheers, T i m
Correct.
Correct, as long as they do so legally.
Because you have never seen me blocking any emergency vehicles because I am observant and plan ahead.
Luckily, in this country law abiding citizens don't usually get fined for not breaking the law.
What if they cause the death of an innocent person by trying to move out of the way?
It's not an excuse, it's the rules and break them at your own discretion / peril..
However, here is a nice video you can watch that even you should be able to understand (and hopefully learn (the current UK road traffic rules) from).
An some other *facts* to counter you everlasting BS ...
"Can I be fined for breaking the law to assist an emergency vehicle?
Yes, you can. Councils and local authorities are heartless bureaucracies at the best of times, but in this case they do have the law on their side. There is nothing in the Highway Code which says you can break the law if you are trying to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle."
"There are also plenty of stories and old wives? tales about how you can write to the relevant authority and explain how you were trying to assist an emergency vehicle, but there are no legal provisions to get you out of a traffic penalty. Sometimes these fines are withdrawn if the driver appeals and there is supporting evidence, but certainly not always."
So like I said elsewhere, maybe you could stop the ambulance driver on a shout and ask him to be your witness if you get done for say crossing the white line at some traffic lights.
You are welcome.
Cheers, T i m
and move over a bit, leaving a nice clear path for them.
e, there can't be too many of him around.
If your only options (due to where other people (possibly idiots) had pl= aced themselves) were:
1) Obstruct the ambulance. 2) Break the law and let it past. Are you seriously saying you'd do 1)? You need your head examined. Mos= t people put common sense above the law.
the footage can be analysed later if they were delayed, and anyone who = didn't get out of the way gets points on their licence,
They should if it means they blocked an ambulance.
n't get to on time.
Well obviously driving onto a pavement full of pedestrians is stupid. B= ut I never suggested that.
Obstructing a bus is hardly the end of the world.
I will not read government hype, propaganda, and utter bullshit. As I s= aid before, intelligent people put common sense above the law.
-- =
You know you've spent too much time on the computer when you spill milk = and the first thing you think is, 'Edit, Undo.'
You're the liability. An emergency overrides all laws, end of story.
Can't you think for yourself? Why do you just agree with the majority? (If you assume we even have a true democracy).
But most ignore the ones they know are wrong or petty.
Why would any decent driver cause an accident? When an ambulance is around, everybody stops or slows down. Crashing into someone is almost impossible.
The camera should show there was an ambulance present, otherwise the camera is not fit for purpose. "He ran a red light" is not enough information.
They should. They're the ones that have to get to the emergency. And the drivers are highly trained.
Yes. Fair enough. You make a good case.
It feels wrong and inhuman and callous not to do everything humanly possible to let the ambulance past.
I've was once stuck as the first car at lights with an ambulance right behind me wanting get past. I knew that if I wasn't there he would have had authority to got through the lights on red. He was blocked from overtaking on the wrong side by traffic coming from my right which was turning left (ie towards us). That traffic really should have stopped at their green light to let the ambulance through, but for whatever reason it didn't - not one single car had the common decency to let the ambulance overtake.
I was very frustrated that there was nothing (legal) I could do to let the ambulance past until the lights turned green and I was able to go through and turn left to let him past. I actually wanted to go straight on but if I'd done that he'd have had to overtake me after the lights and there was a long stream of traffic queueing for the lights that would have prevented him doing so for some distance.
I wish I'd been able to say "sorry: I *want* to let you through but I'm prevented only by the fear of being done for going through red lights. I just hope those 30 seconds or so weren't critical for the life of the patient.
There really does need to be a better way of letting emergency vehicles through, but I can see the problems with changing the law to let road users proceed, even with caution, through red lights or into a bus lane. Perhaps the only solution is for emergency vehicles to be able to turn red lights green, which would a) stop conflicting traffic coming from left and right, and b) allow vehicles in front to go though legally. I suppose security of such a mechanism against abuse and hacking is the main reason why it's never been implemented.
You're as big an idiot as Tim. I would have moved out of the way, breaking whatever laws were required to let the ambulance past. You and every single driver that went through the green light on your right should receive a jail sentence and/or have your licenses permanently removed. You make me sick.
Thanks. Unfortunately they aren't 'my cases' but the laws of that lad that are set in place by (in most cases) common sense (for the circumstances) and our democracy.
Agreed, and most do, however there are limits and you have to consider just how much danger you might put someone else in whilst trying to allow an ambulance though that *might* only be going to what turns out to be a false alarm or (in comparison to the motorcyclist you now have under your car), 'low priority'.
Yup, very frustrating for them I'm sure.
Yup, we have all been there and 'of course' try to do what we can. However, the laws re exactly what we can do are there fore a good reason and those who actually know what they are can decide when and where they break them, if that's what they feel inclined to do.
Quite, and hence why we have what we have now. Pull into a bus lane or hard shoulder to allow a police car though and then block the ambulance that's following up. Pull across the lights and hit a motorcycle or block access to the fire engine coming in from the other direction.
They can already, although I'm not sure if they do over here atm.
But it has been implemented (see above) and may be coming for passenger cars as well. ;-)
I just hope if I do need an emergency vehicle that the Wilkinson troll isn't out on the road ignoring the laws of the land and potentially causing even more accidents (that said vehicles are obliged to stop and deal with).
The rules aren't setup for you or me, they are set up to be able to prosecute Wilkinson or anyone else taking the rules into their own hands.
Cheers, T i m
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