I am just about to have my loft converted. I have a problem though - right in the middle of where I would like the room to be there is my cold water tank. (see image) If I was to leave it where it is this would really be a waste of space which I do not want. I do not really want the tank taking out or anything I was just wondering if it is possible that they can be moved... or are they where they are for a reason. I would like it moving about 6ft to the right of where it is now next to the wall (see image) as I am going to be boarding that section off (where the + supports are). I also would like the pipes leading to the tank re-routeing / lowered so it does not cause problems when they come to put the floor in.
Does anyone have a rough idea of how much this would cost me and approximately how long it would take a plumber to do?
You can get "coffin" tanks that fit under the eves in the unusable space for just this situation. When I move a tank it takes 1/2 to 1 day, and I am not a pro.
Hi Thanks for the response. How much are these coffin tanks then? are they a smaller and longer version, so they hold the same amount of water just not as high I take it? if it only takes half a day or so then I don't think it would be too expensive to have done.
Are you sure moving the tank is not part of the work for converting the loft? I can't see how they could do that work without moving the tank and they should have included it in their estimate.
I told them that I wanted them to leave the tank to me as I was not to sure at the time what I wanted to do with it.
How quick are plumbers in the Manchester area to get a quote off and to get the job done? ideally I would like it out the way by the end of next week. Think this would be possible? or would I be pushing it? lol.
On that note if there are any plumbers reading this in the Manchester area (south) how much would I be looking to pay for this job to be done?
Haven't got a clue about Manchester plumbers as a) I'm a southerner and b) this is a DIY group. It's not too major a job and if you want advice on how to do it yourself then we're here to help. Otherwise why not simply ask the loft contractor how much he would add to his price?
The other trick that can work well in these situations is to move the tank high into the apex of the roof above the ceiling of the converted loft. This will also mean that you have the required head to get gravity fed water into the loft conversion. (i.e. if the tank feeds a hot water cylinder somewhere, then moving the tank up would allow you hot water in the converted loft if you were planning on a bathroom up there.
Its so tempting to do it myself, but i have never touched pluming before i am more of an electrics person but yeh, if i had a manual (or a screen and some posts) telling me how to do it i would have a good go.
Going to phone a plumber in the morning that a friend has recomended, see what they have to say - all hangs on that really.
Hopefully no water will be required in the loft. it is really just a cheap job so i can get my much awaited home cinema and studdy :-) occasional use only really, maybe once or twice a week. I am trying to keep costs down to a minimum. I dont exacally want to get someone in to put the floor in for me but people keep telling me how hard it is. Altho it looks fairly easy to do. Would i be right in saying doubble up on the joists that are already there so they are twice as thick and then on top of that going the opposite way putting 3x2 wooden planks the same with appart as the joists so you get a:
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++++ (join the gaps up tho) cross sort of effect? I have seen it done this way at a friends house and my friend still insists now that they guy that did his didnt even doubble up on the joist width.
That makes it simpler - you can put the tank anywhere then. Although higher would give better pressure in the rest of the house.
I am just coming to the end of a complete loft conversion myself (3 new rooms), can't say that the floor was actually that difficult to implement. It does take a bit of care to get the design right before you start though. The BCO will want to see a full set of structural loading calculations to prove the design is OK before you start as well.
Not sure if what you describe is an "official" solution or not - but is does sound like in many ways it is overly complicated.
I went for a common solution which was to install new joists completely independant from the existing joists - hence they run parallel to the existing joists from load bearing wall to load bearing wall. The new joists are sat on a 4x1" timber placed on the top of the load bearing walls, this keeps the underside of them clear of the existing ceilings in the room below. Otherwise you run the risk that any load you place on your new floor will flex the ceilings below and damage them. The floor then sits on the new joists (approx 5" higher than the top of the original joists (assuming the new joists are 8" deep and the old were 4x2").
As I understand it, you can pretty much do whatever you like but if it's nto upto standard with BCO approval then if you ever try to sell the house the conversion "won't count" toward the valuation of the house.
These days minor bits of DIY plumbing are easy, use push fit connectors. Buy a decent pipe cutter. Alternativly get yourself down to Harrison McCarthy in stockport, tell them what you want to do, tell them you are a novice, they will probably tell you everything you need to know, and sell you the stuff at a good price.
You say that you taken them from load bearing wall to load bearing wall?? Would I be right in saying that the load bearing wall is the section that I have shown in my new image at
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makes me think that they are what you mean is that the wood that goes across sits into the wall at either end, therefore making it nice and secure to put a load on. am I correct with this?
If so I would be willing to that myself, just one point, if it is how do you join the new joists to the load bearing wall? is there a special way or not?
Forget "won't count", it's quite likely to devalue the property or at very least make it harder to sell. Solicitors will advise clients against buying a property where BCO approval is absent; it could mean that the property is dangerous (remember that nutter in the press a few weeks ago who removed most of his roof timbers to build an attic room?). Similarly, lenders are likely to refuse the prospective buyer a mortgage.
On a new property that was built using pre-fabricated roof trusses, there may be no other load bearing walls. On most houses with traditional joinery in the roof, then there is usually at least one wall in the middle of the house that is also load bearing.
Any joists that will take a floor load will need to have each end resting on either a load bearing wall or be attached via a shoe/joist hanger to another joist that is supported.
Sounds like you are describing joists rather than a wall as such. What is under the joists? To be a load bearing it would need to be a wall that is present on both ground and first floor. If there was no load bearing wall in the interior of the property and the spans involved were too long to cross with a sensible sized beam then you may need to use a RSJ across the middle to hang shorter joists off.
Have a look at:-
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diagram, while not totally accurate, gives examples of most of the permutations!
Beam D for example runs from wall to wall - one external and one internal, as does beam G. Because we were unsure of the strength of the lintel over the large bay window in the front, we added beam F. This is attached to the end of beam E on a joist hanger, and then rawl bolted to the wall at the other end (the left hand side is the party wall of the semi). Beam F acts as a "stringer" i.e. all the beams parallel to beam E to its left are resting on the internal load bearing wall at one end, but are attached to the stringer via joist hangers at the other.
Beams B and C are like this also. Beam A is attached to other joists via hangers at both ends.
Where the beams rest on a supporting wall, the wall has a wooden "plate" that runs the length of the wall on top of it. The beams are simply "toe" nailed to this to stop them being able to move.
which are supporting the ceiling joists and stopping them bowing. They have nothing to do with any loadbearing walls. The binders are supported by vertical timbers called hangers, bolted to the big timbers under the rafters, which are called purlins. In other words, the hangers are in tension, not in compression. The purlins and rafters are supporting the binders and the ceiling joists.
You must not put any additional load on the existing roof timbers. They are simply not designed for it. They will bow and distort, if not split. And the result will be damage to the roofing, the ceilings and maybe the external walls.
As I said, the binders have nothing to do with the loadbearing walls, so ignore them. You are looking for the top of solid brick or block walls under the ceiling joists. There may or may not be a flat timber along the top of the wall, called a plate.
Finally, your roof appears to be extremely well designed and constructed. Please keep it that way!
Thanks for that reply it has explained allot. Just to put your mind at rest now - I do not plan to touch any of the roof construction at all. Don't want to run any risks.
Now after some browsing around I have found this website, and a few of the images explain what I was talking about in one of the earlier posts.
Images:
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"The plan was to use additional batons to strengthen the existing rafters, and to make up the depth. The floor boards could then be laid on top.
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being original ceiling joist and the 25mm and 50mm being new additions.
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end result
Would this work fine for low usage, we are talking once or twice a week here and for storing junk.
Doing it this was is not going to run any risks of my house cracking up is it?
Interesting. Is there a) a hanger on the party wall or b) do the rawlbolts just go through the middle of the timber chord into the front wall or c) I've misunderstood something. Considering something along these lines myself.
shows the shoe (200x100mm - heavy weight - good for 19kN when bolted) attached to the party wall before the beam was put in place. Note also that this beam is sightly unusual since it runs perpendicular to the rest of the existing ceiling joists, and also flys over them so that they can be left un-cut (handy as they support the bonnet roof that covers the bay window to the front of the house).
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