Lining out a garage: ply, MDF, chipboard...?

[robgraham]

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I've always thought this concern about tools rusting in the modern workshop was a piece of nonsense. Let's see - concrete floor with dpm, insulated walls and roof with membrane to protect the insulation, so where's the moisture going to come from? OK, you warm the workshop up in winter but the only source of moisture is you and that's not going to be very significant, and if the workshop is like mine then there's plenty of saw dust and shavings to absorb the moisture long before it thinks about condensing on any metal surfaces.

And in fact even that is a load of cobblers as my last workshop had none of these - it was just a wooden shed on a plain concrete floor - no insulation - no dpm's, and in 30 years use in mid-belt Scotland I was never aware of my wide range of tools getting any rust.

Rob

[Bert Coules]

That does even things up a bit, I agree. Thanks.

Bert

[Bert Coules]

Before I started my garage-workshop conversion I found that keeping anything made of metal in the garage definitely led to it rusting. This was a concrete sectional building with a cement floor, no insulation, and a corrugated galvanised steel roof the ends of which were open to the outside. The copious condensation that formed on the inside of the roof and dripped freely down was presumably the cause.

Bert

[John Rumm]

Our local supplier does new sheets at £14/each and seconds at £12 for

50mm. Additional discount if you a "van load".

[John Rumm]

Once the surface temperature falls below the dew point, stuff starts to get damp. Can't see how you can avoid it if you are going to allow wet air in there.

My experience is different, but perhaps the climate makes a difference?

It took me several hours of work with a wire cup brush on an angle grinder clearing all the surface rust off my table saw when I bought it from my mate. He had stored it in unheated and uninsulated garage for several years, and it was looking a bit sorry for itself. After cleaning and repainting, its been in my insulated and gently heated workshop for three years, and shows no signs of further rust.

There are various other fringe benefits to having it well insulated etc. Aprons / overalls etc stay dry and don't feel damp, magazines, plans, designs etc stay crisp etc. and I have no qualms about leaving electronic gear out there either. Not to mention fast warmup when you want to work in the winter, and not overheating in the summer.

[Bert Coules]

I must live in an expensive area! Or at least one with less enlightened suppliers.

One of the best bits of advice I ever saw about selfbuilding/DIY was "buy a van that can take 8x4 sheets". Sadly, it was advice I never took. What I've paid in delivery charges over the years would probably have covered the cost of a vehicle and then some.

Bert

[Tim Lamb]

I find it is a seasonal issue.

My tractor workshop is uninsulated and certainly unheated with concrete block walls.

Lumps of metal; particularly the lathe, get chilled during a period of cold weather and then collect condensation when the weather warms and there is more moisture in the air.

The simplest cure is to drape a cover over the object. I'm not sure how this works but it may trap dry air or prevent significant air movement.

regards

[Onetap]

The sun shines all day, the air absorbs moisture from the ground, plants, exhalation, evaporating surface water, sea, etc.. The air RH and moisture content increases.

The sun sets, air temperature drops, air RH increases, excess moisture condenses on anything below the dew point or precipitates as dew. It's de-ionized water (almost) and so is more reactive than tap water.

[Bert Coules]

Does that mean that a constantly-running dehumidifier would be the best way to defeat the condensation problem?

Bert

[Bert Coules]

Tim,

My problem is not only that metal object get chilled: the underside of the galvanised steel roof drips copiously. Only, as you say, at certain times, but even so it's enough to be a real annoyance.

I'm hoping that a suspended ceiling incorporating 1" of insulation and sealed to the interior wall-cladding will alleviate the dripping, but I'll only know for sure by actually doing it.

Bert

[Tim Lamb]

ISTM there are two solutions. One is to prevent moist air coming in contact with the cold corrugated roofing. The other is to arrange some moisture absorbent material able to trap the condensed water and re-evaporate it when things warm up.

If your proposed insulation prevents fresh air reaching the steel, it may well work. You could close off the corrugations with tinned foam.

regards

[John Rumm]

In this case the van in question is the suppliers rather than yours - a long wheelbase Merc Sprinter. Tis what I ordered for the workshop plus a couple of other bits for another job. Was about £320 IIRC.

[Bert Coules]

I was actually thinking more of preventing the hotter, wetter internal air from reaching the steel. Then both the inner and outer sides of the roof ought to be at the same temperature, resulting in no condensation. At least, that's the theory.

I discovered the other day that Compton garages make a polyurethane foam infill strip specially shaped to fit their particular roof corrugations. I doubt if my (unknown make) garage has exactly the same profile, though. And I've never had much luck with tinned foam, which seems to be both pretty uncontrollable and pretty unpredictable, and also fairly useless after a first session with the tin, however carefully you clean out the nozzle and tube.

Bert

[Tim Lamb]

You can purchase foam strips to suit rolled box section as well. They are £1.00/m. One tin of foam should do the job. Moisten the surfaces first and cut off the excess when it has hardened.

regards

[fred]

Far better control with a proper gun and gun foam:

Gun:

cleaner:

[Bert Coules]

I didn't know about that, so thanks. When I start on the roof/ceiling I'll probably go down that route.

I see that the cleaner works only on uncured foam, so you have to be reasonably nippy in its use. I think I'm right in saying that there's no solvent or cleaner for cured foam, is there?

Bert

[fred]

I would definitely clean the gun after each as mine is currently awaiting a strip down and clean out[1] after leaving it too long between uses. Others here who use their guns more often say they just leave theirs 'live' and don't have problems.

Not really for gun cleaning I think but try Foam Eater:

they are dismantlable to component level for cleaning if required but normally a skoosh through with cleaner is enough

[Bert Coules]

[John Rumm]

If I am using it again within a few weeks, then I will leave the can on. The seal on the gun is far better than on the can. You may need to slice of the layer of cured foam from the nozzel prior to next use.

[Bert Coules]

I decided to try a single wall as a test: tile battens, 2" Quinn-therm, OSB. It's gone well and I think the OSB will look fine once it's painted, but I didn't find the Quinn-therm as pleasant to use as Celotex: the core foam seems to be much more crumbly and messy to cut, almost like normal expanded polystyrene. Celotex for me in future, I think.

Bert