If they are still live, turn the mains off at the fuse box and the instalation is not to be turned back on untill inspected by a qualified electrician.....
Lead went out with the ark, is is the rubber at the ends that degrades.
>
My biggest concern would be for the insulation within the cable - it can't be in very good condition after all that time. I would replace the cable runs. It is rarely as difficult as it looks, and anyone who is competent at wiring should have no trouble doing so.
My Sister has just bought an old house pre-20th century house. We've found a couple of mains cables running from the fusebox that have a lead sheath (they looked just like the modern plastic ones until I scratched the paint off and they revealed shiny lead. Not sure yet where they run, but my hunch is the lighting circuits. Getting them out will be very difficult (especially for my sister!) What current would these be normally rated at? Could they be dangerous - how can I tell? Is there any way of safety testing them? Any other comments? Thanks, Matthew
In message , James Salisbury writes
Well, yes that is the 'correct' thing to do probably.
However, turning off the mains fore the whole house may not be very practicable.
Yes, it would be worried about the insulation inside this cable which is likely to be rubber - or rather I'd be worried about the insulation at the ends of the cable where it terminates.
But my experience of a house that had a fir bit of original 1930's rubber insulated cable (and I had a bit of this lead sheathed cable as well) is that it's mostly ok until you start fiddling with it, when of course the insulation drops off and then becomes rather dangerous.
To the OP, yes I'd assume this is unsafe and leave it alone and I'd want to replace it ASAP, either myself or getting an electrician in. I'd also want to check the rest of the installation. And don't be taken in by first appearances. Our house had had a lot of work done in the 60's sockets and new light circuits had been wired in PVC cable, but the new light switches had just been connected to the old rubber 1930's wiring.
Most of the lighting wiring in my house was lead when I bought it, and it was old then - about 30 years ago.
However, I was surprised to find that only the rubber insulation exposed to the air had failed - cut it back a couple of inches and it was perfect. Of course, that rubber might have perished quickly when exposed to air - I didn't find out.
It needs replacing, no matter how difficult. It's almost certainly a fire risk.
Wow - I saw some lead wiring 25 years ago and it was totally knackered then. As someone else said, it's rubber insulated and the rubber perishes. In theory it shouldn't be a shock risk as the sheath should be earthed (but who can be sure) - but could definately be a fire risk (and a shock risk if the earthing has failed).
Whilst it's *possibly* not going to blow up tomorrow or if it does, it *should* just blow a fuse, do you want to take a known risk that could have dire consequences?
Best get it looked at asap and definately turn the circuit off at the fuseboard now. At the very least, do kill the circuit while people are asleep or out of the house.
I'm not a qualified electrician, but I have some experience of diy wiring (which I do by the book) and I've seen and occasionally replaced some historical stuff.
Let's put it this way - I would *not* leave it on unsupervised with my baby daughter in the house (ie, I might turn it on to prove what it feeds, but only after getting everyone away from the area and taking precautions myself). Sounds parnoid, but fire can start unseen and spread fast, esp. if the wiring is under the floor or in the loft with lots of dry flammable dust etc.
It would be safe to assume that the rubber has perished by now and what you will probably have is hard brittle rubber tubes (or worse, crumbs) being the only thing that is insulating anything from anything else.
WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT POKE IT, MOVE IT OR DISTURB IT IN ANY WAY - If it has deteriorated, then it's likely to break down further and you'll get a short (or electrocuted if the earth on the sheath has failed).
Mind you, if it does pass out as safe after inspection, you'll probably have a world record!
The current rating - bit outside my limited experience, but IIRC 5A was common at this sort of era for lighting circuits. Any seasoned sparkies care to comment?
Best check the fuseboard too - does it look like an antique too? If so, replace it at the same time.
Well - that's what I would do anyway, (I did say I'm not qualified :-o )
Best wishes,
Timbo
In article , Dave Plowman (News) writes
Lead wiring is nothing..
I have seen junction boxes made from Oxo tins..the wires were brought into the tins via holes punched in the sides, the wires twisted together and the tin filled with bitumen or tar to act as an insulator. (The wire had fabric over rubber insulation)
Scary, but rather ingenious!
sPoNiX
Pointless, they wont pass any tests.
Lead was generally earthed, but lead is soft so it is hard to grip with much pressure, so the earthing joints may not be gas tight. And as youve seen, lead corrodes in air. So it may not be earthed.
You wont need to worry about the exposed rubber insulation causing a fire as it will probably all have fallen off decades ago. So dont move the wire at all, not a bit.
The wiring will all be filthy by now: add the 2 above factors and its very possible the lead may be sitting at something around 120v with continuous leakage. Ditto everything connected to it.
Leakage degrades insulation, causing more leakage, causing more degradation, causing hotspots causing charcoal that conducts fairly well and causes fire.
With such old wiring I expect the only protection is wire fuses, which would not stop any of the above in most cases.
Now you understand the problems. If only the lighting is on lead you could disconnect it and use sockets for lights until its rewired. But an installation like that in has to be thoroughly suspect in all areas, and almost certainly long overdue for complete rewiring.
I dont know what your insurance co would do in the event of a fire, whether theyd pay out, someone else may know.
Regards, NT
WTF was the surveyor doing, or don't they look for this sort of problem (considering that these wires are surface) ?
All the surveys I've ever seen say to get the wiring checked by a specialist regardless. They tend to cover themselves...
You should get some cash for the old cable if there's a fair bit of it. Try your local friendly scrap metal dealer. Might help to pay for the new stuff.
Peter Scott
Not much, I'm afraid. Might cost more in petrol to get it there.
Agreed. They (the surveyors) usually state the above sentance in the (very) small print.
I wonder if the lead cables running from the fuse box are connected to anything. It is not uncommon to see the old cables, lead or otherwise still present without them serving any purpose. Electricians can be too lazy to remove the old stuff.
Adam
Heh heh - not just electricians. I'm in the process of replacing my consumer unit which is at the top of the stairs going to the cellar, and taking the opportunity to remove dead gas and water pipes and electrical conduit. The gas iron barrel appears to be armour plated. ;-(
I fitted a new light in the living room a while back and when in the bedroom above, noticed an old gas pipe! I've since lifted more floor boards and see more of these little pipes. The attic is full of old wiring and bakelite junction boxes. Fortunately none of it is in use as the house was rewired in the last 15 years. (Quite creatively in places, too)
The worrying thing was the scorch marks in the lath ceiling above the ceiling rose ... I guess 100 years ago there was gas lighting and perhaps it got a bit too hot on occasion...
Gordon
But were the wires 70 years old? That's really the problem here I think. I'm sure they were good new, and the fact they're still here is testimony (one assumes) to the original quality; but the materials are perishable! Thanks for the advice all. I'm going to give my Dad a call and advise he gets he arse round there pronto to sort something out! I'll get him to save whatever he pulls out so I can have a look and see if there really was anything to worry about after all! Matt
Heh, I remember when we re-wired our (old family) 1901 house back in the late 1960's, on lifting floor boards it was obvious that the house had been plumbed for gas lighting (but was never used), there were 3 generations of electric light and power [1] plus 2 generations of servant call bells [2] - all still in place although very much not ready for use anymore, if ever it had been by the then current standards !
The house was built for and by an architect for his own use and thus he incorporated many up and coming novelties, it was the only house in the road that didn't have a caller and a central stair well for the 3 floors and it had electric power from the outset (one of the first in the town IIRC) but was plumbed for gas in case that new thing called 'electric-light' didn't catch on...
The biggest surprise was finding letters and (lets call it) other stuff relating to the family of a former Chaplin to the Bows-Lyon family, as the 'guilty' and or any off-spring might have still been living at the time my father thought the best policy was to burn the evidence !
It really is amazing what can be found under floor boards and in the eves of older property....
[1] the first was bare wire and insulation block... [2] this included such things like pulley wheels and bell cranks.
Hi,
Might be worth checking for continuity between the sheath and earth at both ends then testing them with a Megger. If an RCD is then added that would give _some_ protection.
cheers, Pete.
In article , chris French writes
In our old house the cores were wrapped in waxed paper, not rubber, inside the lead sheath. Joints were made by soldering the wires together, insulating them with tape, and then wrapping a sheet of lead around the joint and soldering it to the sheath of the wires entering the joint. (for example, joints with three wires resulted in a triangular lead "blob" soldered to the three incoming wires.) Quite a work of art, but bloody frightening to still see used in this day and age. And people used to run irons and things off the light sockets using this wiring...
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.