Lead water main - not sure what to do

[cf-leeds]

Hi,

I'm currently renovating the kitchen in my 1930s semi.

The existing water main comes in on a lead pipe that has an old dysfunction al stopcock inline and then a soldered piece of 15mm copper that connects t o a compression ball valve.

This is the order of connectivity:

Lead pipe main > Stopcock > lead pipe > 15mm copper (soldered to lead) > 1

5mm compression ball-valve > 15mm house main

The lead main comes in underfloor just below floor level through the brick. It then routes up above floor with the above assembly all visible, then lo ops back underfloor. The visible parts are in an area that's currently hidd en by a cupboad, but the cupboard will soon go, so all needs to go underflo or (and will then be inaccessible due to new flooring etc)

I therefore need to shove the whole assembly underfloor out of the way. I r eally want to eliminate the old stopcock, as I don't trust its integrity, b ut that will mean cutting the lead pipe and connecting a new 15mm copper to it.

I'd then route the 15mm copper underfloor to a new concealed location where I'd bring it back above floor and connect a new brass stopcock.

So my questions:

1. Is Lead-loc recommended as a solution here to connect the lead main to n ew copper. I have read so much about them that's good, but also the odd neg ative comment that leaves me unconvinced. I really can't have a failure of connection once the new floor goes down - must be a reliable long term solu tion.

1. Maybe I could saw off the lead pipe outside the house (underground) and connect a leadloc there. At least I'd be able to get to it, if it fails at some point in the future. If I do that however, what would be the proper wa y to protect the coupling assemly underground and then bring the main into the house underground and through the wall below floor level ? Would I have to use a plastic main pipe ?

Thanks for reading and I hope all the above makes sense and there's an easy way out. I need to do this within the next week, so any input is appreciat ed.

cf

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not difficult if you are used to soldering end feed fittings.

Simply clean the lead inside, push some copper tube up it, and solder using low melting point solder. Perhaps practice first, as you have to be careful not to melt the lead.

One of the first plumbing jobs I had to do in this house many years ago due to a knackered Victorian stopcock. Before I'd ever used end feed copper. And it is still fine some 40 years on.

[GB]

Shame the OP does not have the time to get a new plastic main.

Is there a risk of lead poisoning where fresh lead has been exposed with the new join? This isn't an old wives tale, but maybe the risks are exaggerated? I think you can get kits to test for lead or ask the water company to test.

[harry]

onal stopcock inline and then a soldered piece of 15mm copper that connects to a compression ball valve.

15mm compression ball-valve > 15mm house main

k. It then routes up above floor with the above assembly all visible, then loops back underfloor. The visible parts are in an area that's currently hi dden by a cupboad, but the cupboard will soon go, so all needs to go underf loor (and will then be inaccessible due to new flooring etc)

really want to eliminate the old stopcock, as I don't trust its integrity, but that will mean cutting the lead pipe and connecting a new 15mm copper to it.

re I'd bring it back above floor and connect a new brass stopcock.

new copper. I have read so much about them that's good, but also the odd n egative comment that leaves me unconvinced. I really can't have a failure o f connection once the new floor goes down - must be a reliable long term so lution.

d connect a leadloc there. At least I'd be able to get to it, if it fails a t some point in the future. If I do that however, what would be the proper way to protect the coupling assemly underground and then bring the main int o the house underground and through the wall below floor level ? Would I ha ve to use a plastic main pipe ?

sy way out. I need to do this within the next week, so any input is appreci ated.

Lead pipes are bad news from a health point of view, especially if your wat er is soft. In hard water areas, a lining of lime appears on the pipe. You should consider renewing it with HDPE (plastic pipe). Right back to the water main. Lead really buggers up kids brains especially. You'll probably find lead pa int in a 1930s house too.

Meanwhile, flush the toilet or run some water first thing every morning. Gets rid of the water that's been in the lead pipe all night.

[John Rumm]

I have used them a couple of times, and they have always worked well (so far at least!).

You could use a Philmac universal transition fitting, to go from lead to MDPE, and then from that to copper inside the house. The fitting and MDPE would need no further protection when buried.

e.g:

As others have said, going MDPE back to the water main would be ideal - better flow rate than you are likely to get with the lead incomer. Might be worth chatting to the water supplier to see if there is any subsidsed option for lead replacement, or at least to find out what a new connection to the main would cost.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Houses with lead pipes anywhere might well still have a storage system.

Running water off the drinking water tap would be the way to go.

Remember hearing of someone who was concerned about lead pipes in a soft water area. Test conducted over a number of weeks showed it well within spec.

Of course no-one would use lead these days. But really not sure of how much a hazard it is for water pipes in practice.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm sure you can. But with all such things, not sure about the long term reliability.

[newshound]

+1.

[Harry Bloomfield]

cf-leeds laid this down on his screen :

I read/heard somewhere that if you notify Yorkshire Water that you have an old lead pipe to the house, they will change it free of charge. Give them a ring and ask.

[GB]

Spot on! "We will replace the lead communication pipe and install a new stop tap at the boundary of the street in which the main in laid free of charge, provided that you replace your own lead supply pipe." And here's the application form.

[alan_m]

Doesn't this just state that if you replace the lead pipe from your house to the property boundary the water company will replace their part of the supply to this property boundary. They will fit a new stop c*ck in the pavement outside of your property boundary (possibly also including a inbuilt meter).

Essex water has a diagram on

showing their pipe and your pipe.

[GB]

Sorry, yes, I've already recanted! See above/below (depending on how you order posts).

[cf-leeds]

========================= ================\

========================= ================/

Thanks for all the responses - lots to think about. I just did a check and Yorkshire Water class my supply as "moderately hard". So that's good to kno w. As others have confirmed, I don't think YW will change the old pipe betw een the meter and the property for free.

So I'm now thinking that I can use a Universal Transition Coupling outdoor and connect an MDPE pipe through the wall to a 15mm copper connector inside underfloor. I can then consider replacing the long lead pipe, which rund t he length of a long drive at a later date.

I calculated the lead pipe under the floorboard using a piece of paper and pi - It seems to be about one inch diameter.

I notice that the Philmac couplers only start at 27-34mm for a one inch cou pling. Is there another brand that would reduce one inch lead straight down to 15mm, or even 22mm ?

Assuming I've understood the product spec properly.

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Hogg]

Possibilities here

But you need to sure about your lead pipe size, e.g. are the sizes mentioned ID or OD. Plenty of links to useful info here

[Pamela]

Are there any decent home testing kits? Many of the ones listed on Amazon have suspicious reviews.

[Steve Walker]

The water companies were adding phosphates to prevent lead leaching into the soft water. The standards tightened in 2013 and they are probably using something else now.

SteveW

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Ages ago, I did some plumbing work in my parents house - in a soft water area. Removed some 50 year old lead pipes. And it appeared to be in perfect condition inside - the cold drawing or whatever marks still there. If lead dissolved in the water, I'd have expected signs of this?

[GB]

I don't think that lead is very soluble, but equally it doesn't take much to poison somebody.