kitchen floor: ceramic tiles or laminate tile effect

[benpost]

i am considering the above for my kitchen but cant decide, tiles i think are better quality and feel more long term/solid. laminate probably easier to lay but not as long lasting.

has anyone experience of both of these floorings for a kitchen? the heating pipes run under the floor so it shouldnt get too cold. its only a small kitchen and i have just taken up the old ceramic tiles, leaving a pretty even surface of concrete, black tar like adhesive and some old thin vinyl style tiles (probs there when the flat was built-30-or so years ago)

i only found one small area where the concrete was loose and this is where heating or water pipes had been installed and is right near a wall where there will be units so i guess i could either leave it or fill it in with some sort of cement(?).

once i've cleared the rubble and dustpan/brushed it all (im guessing i dont need to worry too much about dust so not planing to hoover). then what do i do next to prepare. ive heard self leveling isnt very good. as i did with the walls should i use pva?

appreciate the help and advice guys, i'm finding you lot more helpful than the diy manual!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. I have found that PVA stabilises loose crumbly screed VERY well. Use loads of it. It's cheap.

Don't bother self levelling for tiles. Get a GOOD quality RAPID set adhesive - I swear by Ardex, and lay the tiles using a levelled string as a guide, with a minimum of 4mm at the highest floor point. The cement is very little more expensive than levelling compund, and this way it comes out right. Mix stiff to avoid slump, in small quantities. They really do mean rapid set.

[benpost]

hi NP the floor is now clear of rubble and got rid of most of the dust. most of the floor is covered with the black adhesive stuff which was for the original tiles when the flat was built. there are areas that werent tiled that are a but uneven and crumbly. what do you advise i do next. i'm thinking i might need some sort of levelling stuff for the previously non tiled areas. i know you said dont worry about self levelling but the concrete/sandy areas are pretty uneven, but would be easy to level as they are surrounding by the flat areas that were tiled. your advice very welcomed. thanks

[The Natural Philosopher]

Weigh up the cost of levelling compund versus GOOD tile cement and pick the cheaper option.

Don't use sand/cement:it cracks in thin sheets.

[benpost]

thanks mate going to buy some tomorrow..... oh the pva, is it still worth using that? i've got rid of most of the dust with a hoover, but there is still some crumbly stuff here and there.

if i need pva should i do that first , then after that do the leveling/ adhesive?

cheers

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes.

If you only need a little get some white glue and water it down. Its near enough.

i've got rid of most of the dust with a hoover, but

You MUST seal with PVA ,with levelling compound. Otherwise the floor 'grabs' the water and the compound sets crumbly.

[benpost]

thanks NP, got the PVA (focus is a lot dearer than wickes??)

also got self levelling stuff from unibond.

will pva today. what sort of trowel do i need for the self levelling? i saw pointing trowels but they didnt look right?

[benpost]

well just did the first coat of pva. amazing how many bits of grit the roller picks up even after i'd hoovered it. well hopefully this first coat (diluted 5 to 1) will seal most of it then i'll do another coat maybe a bit thicker to finish off.

wait for that to dry then have a go with levelling compound. what type of trowel do i need to do a basic levelling (after all its meant to level itself?)?

[The Natural Philosopher]

don't ask me. I used a plaster float, and took hours, and it still wasn't level :-)

I am the worlds worst plaaterer. My method is to slap it all on and then treat like car body repair, and get the finish with a sander :-)

But you don't neeed accuracy here. The tile cement will do that last couple of mm.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It never does what it says on the tin. I am sure if you put it in

10-20mm deep, with a mechanical vibrator, it would eventually puddle itself more or less flat..but in my case, it had 3mm lips where it stopped flowoing, and was out by +-5mm everywhere..it simply did not flow.

I used a float at the edges to kill the lips, and guessed at the depth in the 'puddles' I had to fill.

I would never use it for tiles. I had far more success in the kitchen with no levelling compound, using tile cement from 5-40mm thick. That was simply a question of covering the area in strings first (checked with a level), and seeing where the highest point was..add 5mm + tile thickness to that, and using it to set my my datum string, against which the first course was laid. Each one checked with a small level to make sure the tile itself wasn't slanted.

Where I knew I has problems and need extra cement depth, I used to scrape out each old cement mix and plaster it on that bit of floor..to build it up. Not perfectly, just smoothly. Then when the time came to do the job finally, I need a smaller amount of fresh to fill the gap.

In one bathroom where I had an inch and a half of fallaway in one corner..I screwed bits of scrap wood to the floor to save on cement..that seems to have worked as well ;-)

[benpost]

thanks for your help. i bought some self levelling as im still undecided on whether to tile or put down laminate/vinyl. i think i'll end up renting the place out so one part of me says do it quick and cheap but another likes the solid tiles. the middle area is pretty flat as it had tiles on before. i just have a couple of rectangular areas (where units were) that are concrete and a bit uneven.

[benpost]

i'm going to fill the deep holes with a 'cement based filler' are there any well known brands of this?

[mark.hannah]

I had the same decision to make a few weeks ago - and went with tile effect laminate to save time on levelling out the floor. Laid it in under an hour, and it looks great - no-one has guessed that it is laminate so far.

Mark.

[adder1969]

If I were tiling I would use the tile adhesive to level the floor whilst tiling, unless it was way out of course in which case I'd fill with whatver I had around - screed or plaster. I find for floating plank style flooring like laminate that getting the floor level is more critical otherwise it bounces. A water leak onto/under a laminate floor will also ruin it very quickly and you'll have to do the job over again. Laminate isn't a permanent as tiling unless you tile over a membrane.

[benpost]

hey guys. i know laminate would be easier to lay, i'm just not sure i like the tile effect, compared to real tiles. plus if i lay this one room with ceramic tiles then i've had the experience of laying tiles. in some of my other rooms i will definitely lay laminate.

today i've bought some polyfilla cement mix, comes in a box with 2 seperate packets of powder. to be honest it did not make a lot of cement for the size of the box. but i've filled in the worse parts so they are close to the level i need.

also pva'd (3 to 1) around the edges again just to stabilise the surface further. back to the flooring, in homebase its pretty expensive for that laminate tile stuff, i'm sure it said about =A328 a square metre?

[Man at B&Q]

Has this actually happened to you?

We had quite serious leak from the W/M outflow. The laminate suffered no real damage and dried out well (It is designed for kitchens, after all). I admit, I was pleasantly surprised. The real damage was to the worktop above. The humidity (we didn't realise there was a leak for a while as most of the water found its way under the laminate at the edge of the room. seems to have caused it to swell and the covering to start coming away where it rolls down over the front.

MBQ

[Anne Jackson]

The message from benpost contains these words:

In a previous life I was a cleaner, responsible for fourteen houses.

In all of the houses with ceramic tiles on the floor - without exception - there were cracked tiles. Given the average incomes of these households, I can't believe that they all put down cheap tiles. I therefore concluded that ceramic tiles can be very, very unforgiving!

I'd put down vinyl tiles, were I you, especially if you're considering renting. Tenants, in the main, don't give a stuff about the property they're paying rent for!

[adder1969]

You were there.

[adder1969]

On Jan 24, 3:37=A0pm, "Man at B&Q" wrote: =A0

Yep the leak was small and went unnoticed and the laminate lifted along a join. My worktop was fine though :-)

[benpost]

I'm gonna go with laminate, with a tile effect, for ease of laying and practicality.

If anyone else here as laid a laminate floor with tile-effect lately then let me know where you bought it ?