did I say that ? no, I did not, and this is how you develop your argument:
and then he goes:
what's wrong with you ? why are you picking an argument with nonsensical posts like the one above ? plumbing in a CH system is a lot different to pulling cables and you know it. not many plumbers I know carry large amounts of copper tube, maybe a couple of 15 mm and a couple of 22mm. apart from the theft issue, cashflow is also a factor and that applies to TRVs, zone valves, filling loops, timers, stats etc, but you know this already and if you don't then I don't think there's any further point trying to shed light where you want to generate heat.
The guy is making a profit. He makes a turn on the parts, and he charges you labour. Thats just the way it goes...same as when you get your car serviced you don't pay trade for the spares either.
I do. usually 50% of what the garage charges. they didn't really like it at first until I explained I used to be trade, told them where I used to get my parts from the and their 2 part invoices: one for me: cost one for the customer: double cost. after a bit of red facedness he opened up to me, picked my brains to see if I was lying and now we get on just fine.
he charges a flat £35/ hour and the only discussions I have with him are so called 'book times' vs how long it /really/ takes to do a job ;-)
Then tell me which bits they go to the merchant for, and which bits you think you should get at 'cost'.
Ah - so suddenly cash flow comes into it? That was my point. You and others seem expect a tradesman to supply materials at cost and indeed travel to get the cheapest deal - but pay for the costs involved by doing so themselves?
no ramp, no compressor, I did my time getting dirty in garages 20 years ago. I can earn more money per hour than the £35/hr it costs to pay pete to do my servicing.
standard, fixed (as advertised) £35 / hour. same for anyone.
see ? you're wrong, again. you really don't have a clue yourself, do you ? your attempts to project your ignorance onto me has failed miserably.
Unlikely. A decent make of boiler with a sensible power output would cost less (you could have a 35kW Worcester Bosch for less than that)
For heating it is fine. For hot water performance 24kW is pants.
Pressure will be yes. That is not the same as flow rate though. With a
24kW combi this will be as little a 9 litres per min in the winter.
With a thermostatic shower it ought to be ok. It will be at its best with a combi that has loads of power though. If it can only supply 9L of water a min at a shower temperature and someone (or something) demands
10L/min of hot water at another outlet all you are going to get is luke warm water at both points, and there is nothing the thermostatic shower can do to fix that.
Again good price - but depends a bit on the actual valve used. (you can pay more than that for the shower valve alone)
Depends on many factors - but if not designed with care then this can be the outcome.
That is true - unless it was a second shower only used as a backup perhaps.
The rads may or may not be ok - depends on how well the system was cared for and how sludge up it was. Updating the controls will be a good move though - programmable room stat and thermostatic rad valves in all rooms bar one.
Because his price includes his markup. That will in part be factored in to the cost of the job. If you remove that profit option from him then he may wish to charge more for the labour.
Erm, I think you will find that is the whole point of them paying trade prices.... same goes for most retail activities.
If you retail a product you are obliged to provide the consumers stuteary rights - replacement/fix etc if the product fails etc. It is the dealer who is duty bound to provide this to you - not the manufacturer. Some manufacturers may offer warrenty services to the end user - but this is an incentive to the dealer, not the end user. This protection and service needs to be paid for somewhere.
It is a question how much... if he is charging 50% more than most suppliers - then vote with your feet and buy elsewhere. If he is within the same ballpark as most retailers (or more, but offering better service and support) but is managing to source the products at 30% below retail, then good on him.
nah, I just jokingly question his ability and quack on that I used to do the jobs he's done for me in half the time. mainly because I was an employee of superdrive and the boss used to crack the sonic whip to get the turnaround times down. and I was a young whippersnapper.
Pete is my age and self employed, he doesn't need to rush and he wont. he charges what he charges and I pay, except for the 100% markup on parts, obviously. it's not about feeling ripped off, it's about getting VFM.
he's a canny bugger. I've yet to get a job out of him. (what I call cashback)
you'd be surprised at how many garages do labour only. a quick call to a main dealer to find out the book time for a given job lets you know if the labour only rates are within 'tolerance'. buy the parts from a factors like Autospares, supply parts, pay labour, save money. elementary stuff.
And how do you expect he will he justify that with me? I'm saving him a trip to get the goods!
Materials = how much the materials cost. Labour = how much for collecting, fitting etc. The plumbers profit should come from the labour only. If not, then effectively he's reselling the parts to the customer at a higher cost. To hide half of the labour costs in the materials when it has been broken down into labour and materials is, IMHO as a customer, deceitful.
If there is a fault with the system then who is responsible? If he supplies and fits then he is. If you supply and he fits then is the fault in the materials or the work - either way you could get an argument. If he checks the materials before fitting then how much are you paying him to do the testing. If he accepts responsibility for the materials as retailer how much are you paying him for that responsibility?
hmmm. /if/ the tradesman tried to pass of markup as labour then, yes, it is deceitful but if it's simply invoiced as parts, with the markup included, it's just business.
I have 11 rads, 3 doubles and 8 singles, all 35 years old with new T/S valves, my info is: If you want to change to modern fin type around 40% more heat out put per rad, remember its not free the boiler will work harder to maintain that output and use more fuel. If you are satisfied with the temps in the house, why change, you could flush and re-inhibit the system.
Most main dealers have a 'book' time for a job, and many independents have access to a similar database. Now in my experience those book times are reasonably generous to allow for possible snags.
That was the point made at the start of this tread until someone brought up the costing of materials.
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