Is it a public footpath ?

I dont.

We have a PROW that runs from the road to a green lane. It's actual marked position runs up the side of a couple of fields, across a ditch that no one maintains and straight across a field of crops. It is dutifully sprayed off every year by the landowner, resulting in a dull path of either pure mud or hard baked clay between walls of wheat or rape. ..

No one uses it. They use the farm track that parallels it which gets mown for tractor access and so on, is equipped with bridges over the distches and is in every way a better path.

"Why, I asked the now deceased landowner, "do you not simply change it?"

"Cost, and the thought of the Ramblers association descending on the whole thing and endlessly arguing trivia. I don't mind people walking on the tracks. and it costs me little to spray the 'real' path off to keep them happy. Let sleeping dogs lie".

Needless to say the actual path has a little ugly plastic yellow sign at each end marking it out.

Had a similar experience some years ago , looking for a scenic walk. Ended up following a map to what appeared to be someone's back garden. Someone was in it, so we asked them.

"Are you from the Ramblers Association?"

"No, just looking for the footpath that goes up here" I said, indicating the map "Lord, no ones used that in 20 years..if you want to get there, follow that track there, and walk up the field on the left. It joins the old path up there and is a much nicer walk and all the dog walkers use it"

The problem is of course that the Ramblers association want things the way they were 100 years ago. I lived on the Fens. They are criss crossed with old rights of way. But no one lives there, so they are in longer in use.

A friend an I followed one, out of sheer curiosity. It led to a derelict house, that was frankly so dangerous we didn't do more than look inside.

My landlord at the time who had lived there 60 years or more, was amused "Those paths existed about WWI time, but no one lives there any more. We had about 1500 people living on the Fen then, 6 pubs and two churches. Now there's about 40 of us.There's derelict places everywhere. Mostly under mounds of earth. They just fell down when their owners died. No one wanted em. No water, no electricity. Just old cottages".

What is needed is a simple process to exchange old ways for new, in line with usage and the way things are today.

Rights to roam are a total nuisance in agricultural land, as people seem to think they can wander anywhere with no heed for the actual land use.

Indeed, they are in hill walking terms - a total ecological disaster with tracks being worn away through the constant use they get. And needing to be returned almost onto tarmac footpaths.

It is right that walkways should exist, and under statutory law too, but it is not right that either unrestricted access or inappropriate routes be left just because they were once valid routes that long dead people followed.

Meanwhile we have the stupidity of councils signposting the things up, that are simply not in use, while the regular real walkways are at risk, because they exist only be the grace and favour of the landowners. And are further put at risk by itinerant travellers, who, if the tracks are not gated off, will park up and camp for as long as they can stand the tip of rubbish they leave behind.

To be cleared at the landowners expense.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
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I read all that and thought "What's the problem, then?", other than the fact that you find those signs ugly.

Again, what's the problem, exactly?

It would be an unusual path that went to a house and nowhere else. Dead ends do exist, of course, not all of them useless.

Simple? We're talking about local councils here. It's bound to cost money, and as the landowner you quoted earlier said, why spend money on solving a non-existent problem?

You must be talking about somewhere other than England, where there is no right to roam on agricultural land.

Track wear is usually the problem when people *can't* roam anywhere.

Mostly they're left not "just because they were once valid", but because they're not causing a problem, so it's pointless spending money changing things. Where they do cause a problem, obviously it might be worth diverting or removing the path, and that does happen.

Reply to
Mike Barnes

Well that's fine if there is a path there next to it, but it should be finger posted.

Again, an alternative has been provided.

But you still chose to have a walk up there out of curiosity. You may have decided that you don't want to walk up there again but why should others not be allowed to?

If there is a maintained and clear path then people will use it.

So should only the chosen few be allowed on the hills? Would you be included in these few? Why are they an ecological disaster?

If nobody ever uses them and nobody is allowed up them then what does it matter what they look like?

I'm not interested in your prejudices.

Reply to
David

Is there a lurker here who works for your local Council?

Reply to
Dave

Council finances are finite. So you would rather see a teaching assistant lose their job (or whatever other cuts are currently in progress) just so a particularly useless footpath is signposted. Any competent walker can read a map so the only ones to benefit from marked footpaths are clueless numpties who, in this case, won't realise that the path turns abruptly and the overgrown, uninviting and eventually almost impassable continuation downhill is the way to go so they will continue in a straight line and pass through my yard (regardless of whether the gate is chained shut) before trampling through several hayfields on the way to the middle of nowhere.

Reply to
Roger Chapman

I suspect that's a false dichotomy.

Even competent walkers find signs helpful in such situations - if you're a landowner and you want people to not go on your land, put up a little sign to make it obvious. Even a piece of laminated paper.

Reply to
Clive George

I didn't say that. You made it up. I've snipped the rest because I have no reason to believe that either.

Reply to
Mike Barnes

You certainly implied it. Spending money on trivia inevitably reduces the amount of money available for more essential tasks.

I've snipped the rest because I have

Gratuitous insults do nothing to help your argument.

Reply to
Roger Chapman

You may call a legally required sign trivia but I bet you would moan like hell if the council lapsed on other legally required duties.

Reply to
Phil Cook

That would depend on how important said duties were and how much leeway the council has in undertaking them. Somewhere up thread is the suggestion that their obligation to sign footpaths dates back decades and has no time limit. There was no pressing need to put up such signs at a time when the council is closing libraries and sacking significant numbers of staff in an attempt to cut costs.

Reply to
Roger Chapman

Being a sad git I did a bit of googling and came across

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states, and I assume it is correct:-

'21. Section 27 of the Countryside Act 1968 (as amended) requires highway authorities to signpost footpaths, bridleways and BOATs, where they leave metalled roads, and where it is considered necessary to assist anyone unfamiliar with the locality to follow the line of the path or way'

and as always also states the opposite

'A signpost need not be erected at the junction of a path or way with a metalled road where the parish or community council, or the chairman of the parish meeting, agree with the highway authority that this is not necessary'

Reply to
Ted Ferenc

These statements are not inconsistent. As I read them, the presumption is that a signpost is to be provided, but that the highway authority and parish council (or similar) can agree that at a particular location a signpost is not needed. Both authorities need to agree for a signpost not to be provided.

Reply to
Jeremy Double

Fair enough - I'd call that an exception rather than the opposite. Many urban public rights of way don't need signage, because they're paved and lit alleys, or they cross open public land such as parks and commons.

Reply to
Mike Barnes

I did not. You made it up.

It wasn't an insult, it was a rebuke. It wasn't about you, it was about what you wrote. Your posting contained a somewhat offensive lie about me, so it's not unreasonable for me to doubt the accuracy of the rest of it.

I'd be quite happy to debate the issue rationally (not that I think there's anything much to debate: we simply have different opinions, and I stressed at the outset that you're entitled to yours). But leave the personal stuff out, OK?

Reply to
Mike Barnes

But is it a legal alternative? Just because "everyone uses it" does not make it legal.

might use it, their dogs or kids probably won't...

disaster

There are many angles to this, some people going up onto Access Land seem hell bent on getting a Darwin. Most Access Land is by it's nature remote and exposed, it is not the place to visit in trainers, shorts and T shirt. They seem to be surprised when their mobile phone doesn't work and take it as read that the *volunteer* and *charity* funded mountain rescue has to come and pull 'em off when the weather changes or they simply get lost 'cause they havn't even got a map.

IMHO these wazzocks ought to made to pay a legally binding fee for being "resuced", say =A350/rescuee/MR team member/12hrs. So a MR team of 12 rescuing 4 people gets 12 * 4 * 50 =3D =A32400 or =A34,800 if it takes more than 12hrs.

Because being able to roam anywhere disturbs the wild life. Many people wandering about will not notice the nests of ground nesting birds (crunch), delicate rare plants or keep their dogs under control (on a lead of no more than 2m during the nesting season) or not complain if their dog gets shot when it starts chasing stock, etc.

So you'd be happy to pay to have removed a couple of tonnes valueless scrap, crap and general refuse that some one left in your front garden?

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I must admit I thought there was a Government policy regarding the use of open standard. So I was surprised to see the Ordnance Survey, another Goverenment organisation re-writing their Get-a-Map site (http://

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to require the Microsoft Silverlight plugin to view the maps.

The problem of course is that Silverlight is another properietory solution that requires a plugin. And that plugin is not available for a lot of platforms. For example it's not available for older AMD Athlon based PCs (as Silverlight requires SSE extensions). It is also not available for common mobile operating systems (e.g. Google Android or Apple iOS). Of course if out in the hills it might be nice to see the OS map of your current location on your smartphone but now you can't via the Ordnance Survey website, anyway (except possibly if your phone runs Windows 7). I'm aware of other sites like streetmap.co.uk of course but they don't keep quite as up-to-date as the Getamap site.

I tried contacting Ordnance Survey but they don't want to know:-

"Hi Jon, we chose to use Silverlight to get the deep zoom user experience. It tested very well in market research and the download didn?t seem to be too much of a problem"

So I'd be interested in any official policy documents I can point out to them....

Jon.

Reply to
Jon Combe

stupid sods ...

Reply to
Andy Burns

download

I wonder what the market research was, their mates all with the latest 200GHZ 50GB RAM machines and Windows 200?

WTF is a "deep zoom user experience"? When visiting a web site I don't want an "experience" I want the information I've gone there looking for.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Thank goodness, I though it was only me who felt that way.

MSFT gave up on Usenet so they could provide a "Rich User Experience" with web forums. Only needs Ballmer to say he is "passionate" about it and I'll puke.

Reply to
Jeff Gaines

Not here, we call them Gypsies. Pikeys are different altogether, usually travelling scum who will steal anything that is not screwed down, and often things that are!! They do have their uses, mostly taking away anything made of metal and left lying in plain sight. Trouble is they are just as likely to "tidy up" kids bikes and garden equipment left unattended anywhere.

Mike

Reply to
MuddyMike

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