increasing water pressure blew up water softener

[jonathan.ives]

Hi,

I have or had a water softener fitted about 4 years ago. It was comissioned at the time and I believe the pressure was below the maximum limit of 70 psi or else it would not have comissioned by the istallers (waterside)

While on holiday it leaked a large amount of water onto my kitchen floor due to a fractured collar seal. The softener engineer measured the pressure and it's now 100 psi , which is way above the limit for this device.

has anyone had a device fail (softener, combi boiler, plumbing in general) where it was due to the mains pressure being increased ? If so were you able to get any redress from the water authority. I'm with southeast water.

The implication is that the pressure may be increased without notification, which I'm guessing could cause devices to fail. Are we supposed to monitor the water pressure at all times ?

many thanks

[Aidan]

No; you're supposed to fit a pressure reducing valve with a downstream pressure relief valve to protect anything that might be damaged by high pressure.

Although they may have measured the water pressure at installation during the day, the maximum occurs during the night when there is little consumption and so less pressure lost due to friction between pump and outlets.

If the device maximum rated pressure is less than the water authority's statutory maximum, it's down to you or the installer (can we guess what their response will be? ). Just putting in an insurance claim might be the path of least grief.

[Steve Walker]

You have mains pressure at 100psi, eg nearly 7bar? That sounds extraordinarily high to me, but IANAP

[Tim Lamb]

I have exactly the same situation. Current pressure 100psi and presumably less than 70 ten years ago.

I suspect the initial response to low supply pressure found in multi-storey flats built on hill tops, is to jack up the system pressure. Those living in valleys don't need to invest in pressure washers.

regards

[Aidan]

The water company only has to supply 1 bar pressure. It's not their concern if water doesn't get up to roof tanks in high blocks, so they've recently been turning the pressures down to reduce the water lost to leakage. Some high-rises now need basement pressure boosters when they weren't needed previously. Not a problem for the water suppliers though.

I don't know what the maximum permissible pressure is.

[Guy King]

The message from "Aidan" contains these words:

Recently? They've been pulling that stunt in West London for decades!

[Doctor Drivel]

The money making bastards want blocks to store water, not at the water company expense, so they don't have to spend on building reservoirs. In blocks the pump sets give the pressure on drinking water.

[Micheal Ra]

Yes, and yes. On Christmas day a couple of years ago an over-pressure water supply caused the flexible hoses to many appliances in our village to blow. We were fortunate that a switched-on resident brought this to people's attention and later posted information in the village rag on how to apply for compensation from Thames Water (we're in South Oxfordshire). I applied for, and received, compensation for a repair to a water softener. (The softener had not been damaged by the over-pressure but the flexible hose which supplied it had blown.)

--Mike

p.s. Thanks to raden for the the Suprima PCB in autumn of last year. It was a doddle to fit. It was a pleasure to do business with you.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Steve Walker" saying something like:

My supply pressure is way above that during the small hours. A pressure regulator is an absolute must around here - at the bottom of a 500' hill, on top of which a reservoir/pumping station sits.

For years, I've wondered why the Council doesn't fit pressure regulators in the main supplies, as they're forever digging up mains to repair them. I suppose that's too easy.

[Guy King]

The message from Grimly Curmudgeon contains these words:

S'not the council, is it? Not unless you're in Northern Ireland where they still have public water.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Guy King saying something like:

Southern Ireland. Where we don't have water charges or council tax. I don't know how long that's going to last, now that the EU is making noises about it.

[Guy King]

The message from Grimly Curmudgeon contains these words:

It just pays for itself?

[Doctor Drivel]

They achieved that by redistributing land. There are no large land owners in Ireland.

[Doctor Drivel]

The redistributed land which expanded the economy, which brought in more general tax, which rendered council tax and water none chargeable. Land re-distribution was one of the keys to the economic success of Ireland.

In the UK, most of a councils budget is from central government. Look at the expense of collecting council tax at what they receive. Enormous. Bailiffs in the UK make many, many millions collecting council tax, which adds misery to people as they heavy ramp up charges and invade people's homes. A £200 debt can run up to £6,000 when bailiffs get involved. All needless. No need for the silly tax at all.

[Andy Hall]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:45:33 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote (in article ):

There's nothing wrong with making money, per sec.

I certainly think that the game of turning down water pressures to reduce leaks is unacceptable, just as I think that the minimum flow rate that they are required to deliver at a certain height is too low.

However, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a water supplier to deliver the same for a tower block as for the two storey type of dwelling that most of us inhabit.

How would one set the figure? Should it be for a 5 storey tenement, a 15 storey council block or a 50 storey office building at Canary Wharf? If people are living in taller buildings than average then I think that it is reasonable that the building should play a part in the supply

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Guy King saying something like:

Ignore DD's flight of fantasy. Some years back a vote-getting gov't abolished domestic rates and lumped the cost of Council services on business rates. Business howled at the time, but the voters were pleased. Now the problem is that any gov't that re-introduces domestic rates and water charges will be committing electoral suicide.

In the meantime, I sit and enjoy it.

[Doctor Drivel]

Matt, not at the expense of giving poor service. They change the rules as they go along.

Matt, they used to have a maximum in dwelling in a block that the mains could deliver. After that, the block stored water for drinking. Many block stored water on the roof, or basement (pumped up to flats) for non-drinking purposes.

Matt, those people pay for the water too. Inside of having main pipe run

1/2 mile serving houses from the road, they run one vertically 50 foot.

[Doctor Drivel]

The reason they could charge businesses, was that business grew (many companies emerged) as people could borrow on the value of their land (now redistributed). The business that expanded because of land reform, shifted the charge to the businesses not the householders. Works a treat.

I believe there is an extra charge in Dublin for services - there has to be to pick up all the litter they are so fond of liberally distributing. The last time I went to Dublin they were having a festival of litter.

[Andy Hall]

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 09:44:08 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote (in article ):

That could easily have been solved by structuring the water supply industry in the same way as it has been for electricity and gas

50 feet would equate to 5-6 storeys.

This is very different to the stiuation for buildings of significantly greater than that. Clearly it doesn't make sense to run the entire distribution system at the pressure level that would be required to supply a

50 storey building.

[Neil J. Harris]

Many years ago my parents new water softener failed . It was a plastic Permutit unit made in France, the old unit was a 50's metal one. They (Permutit's rep. I think) recorded the pressure over time and as a result the plumber installed a pressure reducing valve, as the pressure increased at night.

I had a problem when I replaced my old shower with a new Triton unit with a fancy self-compensating temperature (flow really) control. If I had a shower after midnight it would go unstable and hammer. Eventually its pressure switch diaphragm failed.

I put a pressure gauge on the garden tap and discovered the pressure went up to 100psi at night.

They was a sticker on my water softener which said 8.2bar max., (120psi.). Remembering my parents problems, I checked with the softener people who said 60psi would be better. They sold me a nice pressure reducing valve, made by Syr with a gauge on the side. This solved the shower problem and quietened down the softener when it regenerated. I was surprised how much the supply pressure varied, rarely reaching the 60psi set point during the day. (10 year old house on a green field development). I think that in most of the developed world pressure reducing valves are standard fixtures in domestic installations. Water softeners are obviously made with this in mind.

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