I am using a Sky modem/router which generally gives quite good WiFi throughout the house even outside and in the garage. However in the kitchen there is one smart socket that seems to lose its WiFi connection on occasion and given time will usually re-establish a connection. However it has sometimes been down when we required it which meant waiting till it sorted itself out or manually reconnect it. So I am looking at a solution to make it more reliable. I am however confused about some of the hardware supposed to make the system work better and have a few questions for those in the know.
What is the difference between a wireless access point, a WiFi extender and a Mesh system?
Which of the above would give the me the best result, crucially without affecting the performance of other WiFi connected devices?
What is involved in the installation of each of the above such as connections and powering?
Incidentally, the smart socket is used to power some ?landing? lights along the edge of the driveway to help reversing in the dark, using a smart socket enables us to use the Alexa App to switch on/off the lights as required.
A wireless access point is the "base station" if you like - its what allows wifi clients to join a network. There is one built into all wifi routers, however you can get then as stand alone devices that can be connected to a network via ethernet or a homeplug data over mains link.
A range extended is a kind if wifi repeater. Its intended to be placed in an area of good signal, to then rebroadcast to an area with a poor signal. Many only have the one radio, and so will have to swap between the uplink and downlink devices, in effect halving the throughput.
A mash system is a collection of smart access points that can use multiple paths to make a connection. So a wifi client may end up being connected to the main router via a chain of access points using radio, or cable, or (in some cases) homeplug connections. They usually have more intelligent routing to maintain a dynamically updated map of the best route between points. They will likely also have sophisticated wifi capabilities like beam forming (to direct the connection in the direction of the device being communicated with), and band steering (to automatically nudge capable devices onto free channels / frequency bands). The hardware normally has multiple radios, and also the capability of maintaining multiple concurrent conversations (MiMo).
This may be one of the rare cases where a simple range extended would be adequate. You would place it somewhere between the main router and the smart socket.
1) New device in the area with poor signal, then a cable or homeplug link back to the main router. Configure the new WAP to use the same SSID and passphrase as the existing network, and probably to configure a different channel.
2) Join the extended to the network, then place somewhere that it can get a decent signal, but is closer to the poor signal area.
3) Depends a bit on brand, but in many cases, power up one device - connect to it with your phone and follow the prompts. Once the first device is active, add further as required.
I'm assuming that you aare referring to the net on the mains wiring as I do not see the connection between wifi and the power socket. but many smart sockets/plugs etc have a good crap remover in them to stop the net over the mains signals scrambling the device, they all work using over the air systems as far as I can tell. As those who know me will tell you, I am leader of the unofficial kill all plug in internet adaptors society, they cause so much interference and trouble. What would I do? I'd switch the Sky router to modem mode and get a decent router with proper aerials on it or at least places you can plug external ones onto. Its often the return signal from the remote device that gives the problem, so the best aerial you can get to receive on is going to work best. Brian
Thanks for all the useful advice. I think it will be a WAP and I am interested in the prospect of PoE as a CCTV system we are considering uses this for power and data transmission. Currently the wired part of my network consists of a single CAT 5e cable going to a 4 port switch that connects to a Web enabled TV and my grandsons Playstation. Since the Sky modem/router only has two ports and both are occupied one the Hive Hub and the previously mentioned cable it looks like I need another switch does that have to be a specific PoE enabled type or will any bog standard one suffice? The rest of the shopping list will be a PoE power injector and possibly a power splitter to power the switch. Any gotchas regards using PoE with legacy equipment?
You can get PoE injectors if you just need to power a single PoE device[1], but if you need to do several, then a PoE switch is a better bet.
There should not be any compatibility problems with older kit, since unless its setup to use PoE, ethernet kit will not even "see" the voltage on the wires since the sockets are magnetically isolated, and the network bit is looking for a differential mode signal, so stray DC has no effect.
Take a bit of care with the PoE standards supported if you plan to add motorised CCTV cameras, since some of them will need the 802.3bt "4PPoE" standard that can supply more power than the older spec versions.
[1] Note that there is some cheap kit out there that claims to use PoE but is not actually using standard IEEE 802.3 PoE, and just comes with a proprietary injector. That will likely not work with a real PoE feed.
Presumably with a recording device of some sort? "System" would that be a complete plug 'n play package? ie the cameras connect to the DVR directly?
If there are several cameras via a PoE switch to the DVR I'd be tempted to have them as a physically seperate ethernet network and a subnet that could be accessed from the "normal" wired/WiFi network. Just to keep all that 24/7 traffic away from normal 'net/LAN use. Makes it easier to plonk all the cameras into a/the DMZ if you want them to be visible from the internet without potentialy exposeing your LAN to the 'net.
Aye, each PoE device will need it's own PoE injector which will have it's own wallwart PSU or be a wall wart itself. Using individual injectors very rapidly becomes a rats nest of wires. A proper PoE switch is the far better option but watch the power budget. Some may have say 8 ports each capable of delivering 15 W (120 W just for the PoE) but the switch PSU may only be rated to 60 W. Most PoE kit doesn't take anything like 15 W so the apparent "under powered" switch isn't a problem but worth being aware of.
And unless the kit on the end of the cable asks nicely for power the
48 V isn't present on the ethernet cable. IIRC there is a low voltage/current limited "probe" pulse every few seconds.
Agreed. There are basically two methods of providing power an the same cable as ethernet passive and active.
Passive just places a DC voltage across a couple of pairs in the cable, no protection, the full voltage and current capabilty is there all the time. Easy to forget when fault or cable tracing, cheap cable testers object to this power... Ethernet devices *should* be OK but the transformers are centre tapped so it's possible, if one wire of a pair becomes disconnected, for that power to be applied across half the tiny transformer. Passive "PoE" is best avoided.
Active. Various IEEE standards and some incompatable proprietary systems. Looking at you Ubiquity. Some of their kit has a 24 V and possibly passive system. I think they are now moving to proper IEEE standards PoE. IEEE PoE is the safest, the devices have to have a "conversation" before the full power is made avialable on the cable.
You can buy cheap plug in devices that will do WAP or extender. Plug and play they tend to be configured as Wifi extender by default - which is easy to use but it may well rob you of half of your Wifi bandwidth since it is Wifi in Wifi out. If you regularly cast things to the TV from mobile device then you might have to go WAP (quite hard to configure by following the incorrect Chinglish instructions) or Mesh.
Mesh has the advantage that all the nodes cooperate so you get full bandwidth available everywhere and a bit of beam steering to clients which always helps signal strength.
Moving the smart socket to a slightly different location might make all the difference if there is some local not spot in the kitchen. Stainless steel splashback or white goods in the way of the signal for example.
I believe you mentioned installing a Mesh system for a client recently and I was interested to hear how that went and how they are getting on with it?
I ask because whilst talking a mates wife though adding a new email address I'd just added to their domain for her, she mentioned the issues she suffers when moving along (rather than around, as their house is long and narrow) their house.
The existing layout is the Router / AP in the lounge, another in the kitchen, then another in the media room and then a Powerline link from there to the au pairs room and Wifi from that. There is another in their bedroom that covered most of the upstairs. All on the same SSD / password, all on different channels.
She mentioned that sometimes her WiFi access is iffy and so she turns her phone / tablet WiFi off and all is well again and I explained why.
So I think they might be someone who might appreciate a Mesh system (as they are always walking up and down their long house with mobile devices) and should also be able to afford it. ;-)
So all of the straight AP's are TP-Link jobbies, locally powered (although they can be PoE) and connected by Cat5 back to the switch so would they have to disable the AP in the router and Powerline devices and replace them with Mesh AP's John, meaning they would need 5 off?
I would look at extending the wired part - when we moved house I got an electrician to run cat5e to all main rooms when he was renewing electrical cables and it was an excellent descision and easy to do. I also run an old router as a wifi point off ethernet in one room upstairs to boost the wifi signal.
So far so good... "installed" being a slightly loose term since I was going to go to site to do it! I had the kit drop shipped there, and talked him through the setup. (which was done with an app on his phone)
(this is a large modern property split over three storeys and also an outbuilding. Being modern, presumably foil backed PB and insulation all over the place. Needless to say he wanted coverage everywhere).
Now given this chap is not at all techy (but can follow instructions), that all went surprisingly well. Initially we deployed three devices, but then added another three. (in reality they probably only really needed 4 or 5, but the particular device I wanted was only in packs of three)
So far it has met all demands. The only glitch was after a few weeks of non use when away, he returned to find it working everywhere apart from his study (which is odd since that is where the "first" mesh device connects to his router - so it was obviously still co-operating with all the other kit, just not its own wifi). In the end power cycling the AP there fixed that.
(note these are DECO hybrid mesh routers that combine dual band wifi and homeplug data over mains)
Some devices seem very good (cough/apple/cough) at hanging onto a connection for dear life and not roaming to the much stronger connection that has become available, until the first becomes nearly completely useable. Disconnect and reconnect and they connect to the better signal. (sometimes, counter intuitively, setting lower Tx powers on the APs can actually make roaming better since you end up with less overlap so "far" APs drop out of range sooner)
I disabled all the existing APs and Wifi provision in the router - since it was all single band 2.4GHz, and none of that had capabilities beyond
802.11n. The new kit was all 802.11ac / WiFi 6 dual band etc. They also had some powerline that was acting as back haul connections for the APs they had on the first and second floors. So again we took that out of service.
In the situation you describe, the CAT5E can still be used for back haul between APs. You can then either use the existing homeplug if that is required (or go for a hybrid mesh that includes it)
I think I would be tempted to start with three mesh devices, and add more if required - you may find you get good enough coverage without needing as many, since they have lots of new tricks they can deploy to get better results.
This was the issue with this site, nearly no signal in the bedroom over the kitchen containing the AP.
Quite.
Ok.
It happens.
Ok.
<snip>
Yeah.
Yup. I often have to reset the connection order on Windows PC's for people who have more than one AP (might be possible on other OS's).
Agreed, subject to other requirements, like wanting to use it in the garden etc.
Ok, I'd have to check the range of stuff they have for the L.C.D.
I wasn't sure if that was still the preferred option or if these Mesh devices did something clever that made such redundant.
Ok.
I think one of the boys is currently in the au pair's quarters (lockdown etc) so the chances are they *would* 'bother' with the best option there also.;-)
As with your scenario, I think the issue here was (and especially anything done in any rebuild / extension work) all the foil-backed plasterboard and so compartmentalising the house and specifically isolating the re-vamped au-pair area. [1]
They 'forgot' to run Cat5 in there. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
[1] There was also a strange thing where a powerline adaptor didn't work in a 'new' socket in the hallway and whilst investigating it, found some questionable wiring. ;-(
I needed a "not" in there somewhere - but I guess you got the gist!
Some WAPs have an option to disconnect clients below a certain signal level, which can help.
Well mesh is designed to do away with the need for cable - however if its there, it can usually use it. (its target customer is the one who wants something that just works out of the box with no faff or networking knowledge generally)
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