Improving loft space

[pinnerite]

I want to use my bungalow's loft space for storage.

The problem is the miltitude of struts.

For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the terminology:

The bits that run horizontally across the building and to which the ceiling boards are bolted are the joists.

The bits that complete the triangle that suports the roof are the rafters.

The pieces that are connected at 90 degrees to the rafters and 45 degrees to the joists are the struts.

There are other bits but they do not get in the way.

If I was able to remove some of the structs it would be relatively easy to lay boards to make a "floor". The trouble is that they are there to support th rafters.

However, I suspect that there may be a way to add support to (say) alternative struts to permit some to be removed. This would give me the storage space that I need.

I feel sure that someone will tell me to consult a structural engineer but I am loathe to do so if it is a non-starter in the first place.

Comments please?

[Andy Burns]

There are companies that replace timber with metal, with or without additional gables, this is one I've noticed who put out videos of their work.

[Vir Campestris]

Our previous house was built with premade trusses for the roof - they had the triangle you describe, infilled with a sort of W.

Rather than mess with the structure I cut boards to go around the struts.

A PITA, but not as bad as the alternatives.

Andy

[Max Demian]

Replace the struts with vertical struts. Not all at once.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yeah. Those struts are there to build down to a price, reflective of a rise in timber prices and the ability to mass produce the trusses with very little labour content

The problem is that there is so little wood left if you remove the trusses that ceilings become flexible and rooves take on a 'starved horse' appearance.

To some extent you can compensate with purlins supported off the joists with vertical posts.

And double up the joists. Then if you want a usable space, herring bone the joists and lay a chip floor.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

not in scotland they are not called that...tee hee

go on take a chance and weaken your roof but you will probably get away with it...I have seen people remove loads of elements even from a flimsy gang nail truss and get away with it.....just move the oxters down a bit make them vertical and form a smaller triangle.....

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

The problem is if what you store is heavy like books the ceiling can after a while still bulge downward no matter how many struts you have, so removing them sounds like a good way to end up with your ceiling in the bedroom. Brian

[Tricky Dicky]

Trusses are engineered to spread the loads both tensile and compression and removal of any components even with a replacement dramatically affects the integrity of the structure. Before doing anything get a structural engineer to to recalculate what you intend to do and then use a reliable builder who has a proven track record doing these types of structural changes.

On the estate my daughter lives some of the houses have rooms built into the loft. All the houses used trusses to support the roof, however the ones with the loft rooms and dormers had a large square opening in the centre of each truss but the timber sizes were much greater compared to the ordinary W trusses used on the other houses and where wider spaces were required between trusses for dormers and the like the trusses were often doubled or tripled together either side.

If all you want is storage space an easy way is to fix beams parallel to the ceiling above the insulation then as someone suggested board around the truss members. I did this in our bungalow which with a 22deg. Pitch you could never stand up in anyway but provided a crawl space whilst rewiring but could be used for storage.

Richard

[ss]

Also be careful of selling in the future as a surveyor could condemn the work and put potential purchasers off, or prevent someone getting a mortgage on the property.

[R D S]

The way ours have behaved in our house over 100+ years it looks like there was more chance of the struts supporting the ceilings below (but didn't).

[The Natural Philosopher]

I would advise a structural engineers report before staring any work.

They are surprisingly inexpensive

[The Natural Philosopher]

The trusses reduce the bending moment on both rafters AND joists.

you can replace the functionality BUT it takes more wood, and probably wood *bolted* to the existing.

Verticals one third of the way along the joist to the rafters and a horizontal across the rafter top should do the trick, and herringboning the rafters will further stiffen the ceiling

[pinnerite]

it looks like I received the answers I wanted,that it is do-able but to consult a structural engineer.

Thank you everyone that replied.

Alan

[Andrew]

Err, not really. The existing ends of the struts are transfering the load onto an internal wall which might seem to be an innocuous partition wall but is still load bearing. Needs closer investigation.

[Andrew]

Until we have a 50 year storm or snowload :-(

[Max Demian]

Yes, I lived in a bungalow whose attic was partly boarded, with thicker joists and vertical struts on the boarded area, but it was designed that way. with a "gravity ladder" for access and a 13A socket to enable wiring of lights.

[pinnerite]

How would you rate inexpensive?

Can you recommend one in the North-West London area?

[The Natural Philosopher]

less than £200 for a full report

Ask em to quote you

If you are lucky they will design a solution for you My guess is they have a junior eyeball it and a standard letter because everyone else asks the same bloody question!

If they don't do london they will know someone who does

[pinnerite]

Thank you. I have looked them up and will contact them as soon as we complete. (Still keeping my fingers crossed).

Alan