That says it !!
Can someone give me a link to a good forum where breadmaking is discussed.
The problem is that she has had a Morphy Richards breadmaker for maybe as much as 10 years and has never really got a loaf that rises properly, and then retains the rise. Temperature, salt, amount of yeast are all variables and it seems that whatever she does the loaf will rise and then fall.
What I need to find out is if a more modern machine will cure her of her moaning!
Rob
As someone else already said, Panasonic is the only one worth having. The others generally don't last anywhere near as long (although yours seems to at 10 years - depends how often it's used), and can be variable quality. My Panasonic is 12 years old, probably 2 loaves a week, and sometimes used additionally just for kneeding dough.
Temperature - the bread machine should get that right. For fast bake programmes, I preheat the water in the microwave.
Salt - only affects taste, not baking (unless you chucked in so much it killed the yeast).
Too much yeast or too much water can in theory cause the bread to over-rise, and very likely collapse after baking finished. These should be accurately measured, along with the flour. I have deliberately varied yeast and water to see what the effect is, but never had your problem happen. Too little water makes it too hard for the breadmaker to kneed the bread, and less yeast makes a smaller denser loaf.
The fat is another variable (usually butter, but can be olive oil for some breads). It affects taste and texture and how long the loaf lasts before it goes stale. The amount does not seem to be critical IME.
Someone mentioned vitamin C. Some bread making yeast contains it. My current one doesn't, and I haven't needed to add any. The one I used to use did, and I didn't notice any difference.
I haven't tried varying sugar. It feeds the yeast, but I suspect the flour might too to some extent so it might not be critical. If I'm varying yeast (e.g. to make a dense loaf, then I reduce sugar by same amount.
If you are making wholemeal bread, make sure the flour is fresh. IME, the quality of loaf drops well before the flour gets to its use-by date, and can cause the top to collapse. White flour seems to be more forgiving, and works well past its date. Make sure it's bread flour too (needs to be at least 11g protein per 100g flour, which should be stated on the packet). If you're mixing in something like rye flour for taste, then you really do need high protein base flour as the rye flour will dilute it down.
The only failures I've had from my Panasonic are when I've done something wrong, e.g. forgotten to put in the yeast (you end up with a solid lump of dough), forgotten to put in the kneeding paddle (gets to the end and looks like a puddle of stodge), forgotten to put in the salt (looks fine, tastes of absolutely nothing and I couldn't eat it).
Hi again Rob.
Panasonic, Panasonic, Panasonic.
Ad hoc surveys & comments in this forum have pointed heavily towards the Panasonic range. One or two have supported the MR including one friend of mine but it does seem to be the 'marmite' of breadmakers.
I have had a panasonic for a number of years making 2-3 loaves a week and have had not one single failure. Using reasonably fresh (dried) yeast is important as is pretty accurate water measurement. Use bread flour obviously. The bread mix packs also work well again with the right amount of water and a dollop of butter/marge but there is not an issue with the yeast as it is included in the mix.
hth
Bob You should not need to use your new bandsaw to cut it either (private joke!)
Buy her a Kenwood Chef, and bake the bread in the oven. It's a more useful machine than a single-purpose breadmaker.
It's been a while since I last made bread myself, but I seem to remember adding a crushed vitamin C tablet to the mix was recommended to help stuff rise...
Yes, do this, or just use the breadmaker to make the dough then bake it yourself. Much better this way. Would you like a recipe?
Si
Could we all have the recipe please .I have a Panasonic and it is excellent ...Only failure was my own fault for using old ingredients .I'd like to try the making dough in the breadmaker but baking it in the oven .
In message , Bob Minchin writes
I agree. We had an inferior brand for a time (have forgotten now what it was), but replaced it with a Panasonic and it's much better. I originally saw them discussed favourably on some discussion group, probably this one:
In message , Clive Page writes
They certainly seem to be the only people who can make a half decent HDD/DVD recorder
In common with many others, Panasonic (SD253, IIRC). (I have no experience of using any of the others but much discussion has made me fairly sure we got the best one at the time.) But would suggest making dough in machine then putting it straight into an oiled plastic bag and into the fridge overnight. (Make sure there is plenty of room in the bag for it to rise massively.) Then knock down and form into whatever shapes are required, let rise and cook in an oven.
The ciabatta recipe in the Panasonic recipe book is surprisingly acceptable and foolproof. And I found that a spot of rye flour (replacing a little of the wheat flour) improved texture.
Looking for reasons other than the bread-maker, what flour is she using?
Don't buy one with a window in the lid. condensation ruins the bread.
Buy a Panasonic - never had a bad loaf.
Along with Vitamin C, which I also use, it was suggested to me that adding a small amount of powdered ginger would make the yeast do its thing more quickly and efficiently.
On the matter of yeast, what kind of yeast is she using? There are dried ones (often called "Easy Bake") which can be used straight from the pack (needing no activation). However, there are others which would first benefit from being placed in some warm water with a spot of sugar taken from the recipe's amount, and left in a warm place for about an hour. This would allow it to get "activated". If you use the second kind straight from the pack, you may find the bread is as your wife has described it - it was like that when I mistakenly used simple (non-active) dried yeast in our breadmaker.
This technique is a simplified and shorter version of a more elaborate technique which makes a "yeast sponge" used in some sourdough and other bread recipes. These recipes may not be suitable for breadmakers in their fully-fledged form.
You should also make sure that there is not too much salt being added, or too much sugar, both of which can cause problems with bread rising (in the first case), and with risen bread collapsing (in the second case).
As for machines, as others have already commented, Panasonic all the way for us!
This collective is remarkable - is it possible to find anything that you lot cannot give a full answer on ?
Many thanks, guys - all sorts of good suggestions, and a definite vote for Panasonic breadmakers which was already an option being considered. They seem to be universally admired.
I do have to admit that I should really be trying to drive this machine myself - obviously most of the male community here do (do we have any fair sex contributors now that Mary has dropped away?).
Vitamin C and a slight drop in water are to be tried as new variations !! Otherwise it's a Panasonic. I might actually go and play with the new Kenwood and see what that does - hadn't thought of that.
Rob
We should offer the bandsaw to Andrew Gabriel for his loaf without any yeast.
Rob
,
Alas, I'm not of the fairer sex, but I did buy a Kenwood Chef with the intention of making bread, and it is as susceptible as all other techniques for making bricks instead.
I *then* bought a Panasonic bread maker (the one with the auto-ingredient adder for fruit, etc), having previously have a crap generic that only once made a single edible loaf, and since getting the Panny have NEVER looked back. 2-3 loaves a week, and if the wife is on early shift then a nice brioche with sultannas mixed in - lovely toasted at 5am.
In honesty, I've had one flop (out of ~60 loaves), but I thought at the time that I had used too much flour - so I'm blaming my scales for that one.
Forget variations to the recipes - a simple strong white flour, easy-blend yeast, sugar, salt and measured water. Perfect results.
I AM my wife's breadmaker, if she complains .... So I recommend a weekly hand bake. It's wonderful for upper body strength and development, and cleans all the old muck out from under your fingernails. I make her wholemeal dough first, then my white :)
If I was going to buy a breadmaker it would be a second-hand commercial mixer. The gears in modern Kenwoods are plastic and strip themselves if overloaded - the old Kenwood had metal gears and even they stripped eventually with breadmaking. My Pa has owned both.
R.
I agree. I make 8 smallish loaves from 3Kg of brown Tesco bread flour, 3 tablespoons of Allison's yeast and 4 teaspoons of salt. I add too much (probably) corn oil - 12 tablespoons.
The secret is to make the second kneading very thorough. It's the dough's ability to RETAIN the CO2 that's important not its ability to produce it. No need for Vitamin C or anything else.
I freeze 7 of the loaves - it keeps well this way.
Another Dave
Hi Group
Panasonic seems to have had a good press in this NG.
So, do I go for the SD254 or the SD255?
What's the difference, apart from the price?
RonW
The latter can chuck a handful of nuts or fruit on top at the start of the baking phase.
(1) Panasonic (as generally agreed) (2) Get the one with the extra tray in the lid so you can add seeds, grains, etc. - gives you loads more options. (3) Use Canadian flour - we get ours from Waitrose - because that makes the best bread. "Very strong Canadian wholemeal flour. Made using whole wheat grain from Canada, including bran and the wheat germ, strong wholemeal flour is a light brown, coarse flour. Strong flour has a higher proportion of a type of protein, which forms gluten when mixed with water, gluten gives bread its characteristic texture"
Am I alone in thinking it is the window in the lid that causes problems with many breadmakers? when we had one (Murphy Richards I think - it used to drip condensation into the dough. Panasonic doesn't have a window - therefore Panasonic works well.
Anyone feel the need to watch bread being made? A feature having no benefit and possibly a cause of a problem. (IMHO)
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