How to combine freesat & freeview distribution?

[dom]

This is for a conversion that's about 90% complete, upper floor plasterboarded and skimmed, but only a few sheets done on the ground floor.

I originally cabled planning for freesat only, but since switch-over a decent freeview signal is available

Current set-up:

House wired with shotgun sat cable, connecting between -

8 outlets in various places around the house, 4 doubles 4 singles, and an octo-LNB (8 cables connected, 4 hanging free, but can be swapped)

Objective:

On all 12 wires, at all 8 outlets, have a Freeview signal available, and at any

8 of them Freesat as well.

(I believe you can get faceplates that will passive-split the 2 signals)

What I want to do is add a loft aerial (I know the signal is good enough), possibly combined with DAB (great signal), and FM (lousy signal).

I've seen various bits of signal distribution kit, but I'm not clear what option is best.

I'm thinking, head amps on whatever aerials I stick in the loft, followed by a passive-combiner (UHF/DAB/FM on a single coax from the loft).

But after that, what is the best solution? Passive splitters and combiners? A domestic distribution amp (these don't seem to be made for more than 2 satellite signals)?

If I was starting from scratch, I think wiring all satellite outlets directly would be best (that's what we did), AND an extra single wire to each outlet with the combined UHF/VHF on it.

But I no longer have that option to add an extra cable to every outlet - so I think it's going to have to be done by combining the UHF/VHF signals onto the existing satellite cables.

[Alan]

In message , " [e-mail]" wrote

I have sat/uhf/dab/vhf down a single cable with a wall plate split giving sat + uhf +(dab/vhf) output.

some information on plates at

towards the bottom of the page

Use the search box on that site for "loftbox" and you may find additional info.

[NT]

arded and skimmed, but only a few sheets done on the ground floor.

cent freeview signal is available

at any 8 of them Freesat as well.

, possibly combined with DAB (great signal), and FM (lousy signal).

option is best.

by a passive-combiner (UHF/DAB/FM on a single coax from the loft).

yes and yes

satellite signals)?

Any one of the following: passive splitter amp & passive splitter loftbox (ie the above 2 in one box)

ctly would be best (that's what we did), AND an extra single wire to each o= utlet with the combined UHF/VHF on it.

so I think it's going to have to be done by combining the UHF/VHF signals o= nto the existing satellite cables.

You can put the lot on one cable, then run it thru the distribution system. Just check the splitter and any 2nd amp can work with the full frequency range.

The best option at the outlet end would be a quadruplexer at each faceplate to split them, plus a faceplate with 4 connectors. Whether in practice you need the frequency splitting can only be found by trying things.

NT

[Dave Liquorice]

Be aware that a "loftbox" might not be a suitable solution when satellite reception is involved. The satellite box needs to be able to tell the LNB which band and which polarisation it wants for a given channel. This means either a direct connection from each receiver to the LNB(*) or the use of a multiswitch. The latter takes the four possible signals from the LNB and routes them to the receivers according to what it is asking for.

(*) As the OP has gone for an octo LNB and cables he is probably aware of this rqeuirement but IMHO a multiswitch offers a neater solution. Only 4 cables from LNB to it and the abilty to combine and distribute FM/DAB/UHF/Sat all in the one box.

[Alan]

My loftbox allows the control of 4off LNBs

[dom]

OK - I think I've finally understood the difference between a quad and a quattro LNB.

(a quattro *must* be fed into a multiswitch, but then provides as-many-as-outputs satellite feeds)

It looks like I want to change my octo for a quatrro - and buy a 5-input (quattro + UHF/VHF), 12-output multiswitch, and suitable decombining 3 and 4 way faceplates.

[John Rumm]

and skimmed, but only a few sheets done on the ground floor.

freeview signal is available

any 8 of them Freesat as well.

A multiswitch is what you need, That will include 5 inputs - four from a quatro[1] LNB (note some can also cope with a Quad LNB and hence may be able to use the one you have), and a regular TV aerial input.

Yup. Triax so some nice modular ones, but there are plenty to choose from.

possibly combined with DAB (great signal), and FM (lousy signal).

option is best.

passive-combiner (UHF/DAB/FM on a single coax from the loft).

satellite signals)?

would be best (that's what we did), AND an extra single wire to each outlet with the combined UHF/VHF on it.

think it's going to have to be done by combining the UHF/VHF signals onto the existing satellite cables.

No need to, the switch will diplex as required.

[1] Quatro LNBs give four outputs where each is fixed to one of the four combinations of band and polarisation, rather than each output being switchable by the receiver.

[John Rumm]

as-many-as-outputs satellite feeds)

Yup.

IIUC there are some multi-switches that can also generate the line voltage and tone signal required to control a quad LNB in the same way as a receiver does. Hence allowing it to permanently command each of the four outputs into the required state.

(cross posting this to uk.tech.digital-tv since I am sure there will be folks there than can recommend a brand that does this)

FYI the last one I used was a Triax switch - and that could not work with a quad, and needed a quatro.

(quattro + UHF/VHF), 12-output multiswitch, and suitable decombining 3 and 4 way faceplates.

Yes, although you might get away without a LNB change if you can find a suitable switch.

[Bill Wright]

Ridiculous.

Why bother? Just connect it up properly.

Bill

[Dave Liquorice]

line

same way

I agree it's solveinga problem that doesn't exist if you know what you are doing... I think you will agree that there a rather more "professionals" out there who don't really understand what they are doing. If they did you wouldn't have your "rogues gallery". B-)

control

Given two otherwise identical multiswitches one with the LNB control feature and one without I'll probably go for the easy option and have the one with the control feature. Saves having to faff about identifying the, already installed, cables from the wok to the services cupboard. Just terminate and plug 'em in...

[Stephen H]

I've installed 3 multiswitches now. I am by no means a professional aerial or dish rigger, merely an enthusiast/hobbyist. As long as you RTFM and have an eye for detail, you can't go wrong.

I use ordinary Ct100 cable to connect the quattro LNB's to the multiswitch rather than use that 5 x CT100 plus earth compound cable. (too expensive) I use coloured insulation tape for both ends of the CT100 cables so I can connect the Quattro LNB to the multiswitch properly.

One of the multiswitches is a 17x16 version, this means that it accepts up to 4 quattro LNBs pointing at four different orbital positions. I had to write the birds name on the respective coloured tapes for each of the

4 quattro LNBs. That involved 16 CT100 cables.... plus the 17th carrying DTT, DAB and FM via a pair of Televes Avants.

I would have used Optical LNBs had it not been for the cost, hence the16 CT100 cables....

Stephen.

[Bill Wright]

The outputs of the LNB are colour coded red yellow blue green. The cable used is often colour coded the same. The switch input is colour coded. It's hard to go wrong.

Vision decided some time back to stop making switches that generated tone/voltage. Too many reliability issues I was told.

Bill

>

[John Rumm]

Red and green being a poor choice if the installer is colour blind. ;-)

[Richard Tobin]

Installing electrical equipment is a poor choice of career if you're colour blind!

-- Richard

[fred]

In article , Richard Tobin writes

I once worked with an electronics technician who had a degree of colour blindness. He had managed to hide it all through his apprenticeship and was in his late twenties before he confided the weakness to me. He was never without a DMM for checking resistor values.

[Richard Tobin]

I think it was here that we had a discussion about this a while ago where I suggested the colour-blind person should carry a red (or green) filter.

-- Richard

[dom]

OK multiswitch is the way to go.

What Brand?

(I will go for a 5x16 - and makes all 8 outlets twin-sat)

A little net research suggests:

Delta seems to be highly regarded. Triax seems to be mid-market. There's lots of other brands that I can't gain much impression of. (Antiference, Atevio, Labgear, Optima, Opticum, Paragon, Vision - and that's just the common ones)

I'm also seeing these f-plug/socket ganged earthing strips - and I don't understand why they're needed.

Surely all the f-type connector share a common ground on the multiswitch box already?

Or is this the mad world of RF belt-and-braces, weld-it-together-like-a-battleship earthing arrangements?

[Alan]

In message , [e-mail] wrote

Earth bonding on a communal system where the UHF and Satellite may be distributed separately etc.

[fred]

Re-crossed to uk.tech.digital-tv , huge depth of experience on this important bit there:

In article , [e-mail] writes

weld-it-together-like-a-battleship

[Stephen H]

just the common ones)

understand why they're needed.

weld-it-together-like-a-battleship earthing arrangements?

I have 3 multiswitches. Two of them are Triax 5x16 units. Never had a problem with them.

The third is a 17x16 multiswitch by EMP Centauri. This is also a good switch, it has attenuator controls on all 17 inputs if you have excessively strong sat signals.

The Triaxes don't so you need to ensure you size the dish correctly.

A Rule of Thumb as I understand it that for a 5x8 switch, go up to the next dish size, and again for a 5x16 unit from whatever current size your dish is currently.

Stephen.