Horses and muddy field

[Muddy Horse]

Hello -

I've got a problem with the soil outside a stable getting eroded by the horses. Originally the concrete ramp in the pictures below was level with the field, but 15 years of horses walking through mud has create a large muddy hole (about 3 metres square). It's difficult for the horses to get in and out of the stable. So far, we have the following ideas:

1) Fill the hole in with compacted soil. Presumably this would have to be repeated every few years. 2) Extend the concrete ramp with more concrete. This might be hard work if DIYed, and expensive if done professionally. Any ideas on how the ramp should be constructed? 3) Filling the hole with gravel or similar is not acceptable, because it would injure the horses' feet. 4) Constructing a ramp from wooden sleepers might work, but slipperiness would be a problem.

Any comments on these ideas, or better ones?

[Dave Hill]

> Thanks

I should think that your problems are not helped by water from rain, washing down etc running down the slope to add to the muddy patch. I would get a load of Scalpings or such like and building the surface up with that then possibly using a Ground Stabilisation fabric see

Hill

[The Natural Philosopher]

This is exactly where MOT type 1 limestone will work.

Fill the hole with that, and smash it down as best you can. Then put soil over the top.

If the horses dont mash it too much, grass will grow, Think ;'chalk downs'

If the horses do mash it down., it will end us as an eroded pathway - think 'bridleway on chalk downs'.

MOT type 1 is marvellous stuff. It is free draining, , it compresses to a permanent layer, and with soil on top, grass likes to grow on it.

every time I have a hollow place which is muddy and boggy, a layer of it works wonders.

Even down to where the lorries use my front drive and adjacent verge as a passing place: the wheel tracks got filled with it, and now grass grows and the wheels don't sink in.

The stables round here us it a lot too, fir similar reasons to yours.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Muddy Horse writes

Presumably, the horses mill about waiting for you to open the gate?

I don't think suggestion 3 is that big an issue, although the field owner may have views:-) Properly, I suppose you should take off the topsoil (mud) put down Terram membrane and put in 6" or so of scalpings or similar. In wet weather, mud will still be carried onto the new surface but water should drain easily.

regards

[Me Here]

[Dave Liquorice]

No different to what you have the horses will carve it up the first time the go in/out...

That would work but unless you extend the end and cover it with soil you'll just move the step to the end of the new concrete. Even covered with soil it might not last that long.

See the other suggestion of compacted MOT1 covered in soil. Dig out to firmish subsoil, (ie get rid of the mud/stuff that has been cut up) backfill with MOT1 and hire a whacker plate to compact it. The ground forces from horses hooves are high, the MOT1 will need to be very well compacted. Cover with the spoil you dug out and whack that as well.

Yeah, even if you routed large grooves in the wood the edges wouldn't last long.

[andrew]

I agree with Tim.

We've done this on a sandy bridleway, limestone was not an option because of leaching into an sssi, so we excavated to ~400mm, laid terram with the wings laid out to the side, filled with 200mm andesite(sp??) granite scalpings, folded the terram back to cover the scalpings and form a pillow with overlap and re laid the topsoil. We only formed a 1.5m strip because the terram is 4.5m wide and to allow overlap but the same could be done with one overlapped joint under and one on top. The track then looks fairly natural, is slightly raised to allow run off and has stood up quite well. If the soil has little bearing capacity because it is clay or silty I wouldn't worry about reinforcing it with some more soft scalping or even pebbles as long as they embed in the soil. It's small sharp chips that you need a boy scout to remove isn't it?

This will all depend on where the area drains to so consider putting a wavinflow perforated pipe under the joint with the concrete to take the water.

AJH

[The Natural Philosopher]

But if that's not the case, its a far far easier option than what you now describe..Not sure how limestone 'leaches' either..but..you don't even need to excavate the mud with limestone. Just keep adding it till the hole is filled and the limestone will end up at the bottom, and the mud on top, where it will drain dry. And turn into grass.

so we excavated to ~400mm, laid terram with the

Blimey. Total overkill.

[Muddy Horse]

Thanks for the replies. Any ideas on where I can order a few tonnes of MOT Type 1 Limestone from in North Devon, and what sort of price I will pay? Are builders merchants (Travis Perkins, Jewsons, etc) the best place to order such things from?

[andrew]

As it crushes some of the material dissolves and carries calcium ions into the surrounding area, which in our case is a sensitive acid heath, calcium ions raise the pH and affect the plant life, on which some rare insects are dependent.

Overkill it may be but the terrram was only a couple of hundred quid to treat 100 metres of wet patch, inert MOT type 1 was GBP8/tonne more than limestone and it is working.

AJH

[Dave Hill]

Try Yellow pages Quarries.

[Roger Chapman]

snip

I don't know how you go about ordering limestone in Devon.

Quarries tend to deal in 20 tonne minimum loads so would charge you extra for part loads. When I had 66 tonne of quarry waste recently I had

60 tonnes from a Dales quarry and 6 tonnes from a local builders merchant. I can't put my hands on the figures right now but I am sure the builders merchant would have been the cheaper option for the last 6 tonnes. But get it delivered loose if you can. One tonne bags don't contain a full tonne and cost significantly more per tonne as well.

[Sacha]

South Devon, not North but there's a quarry company called Glendinnings in Ashburton.

[FarmI]

That ramp looks slippery and steeper than I'd like to have round horses anyway. However without doing anything about the current ramp, I'd consider making wide shallow steps using 6-8 inch treated pin logs and back filing behind them on the ramp side and gradually stepping down till it reaches the level of the field. The steps should act to slow the soil being eroded although they will take some soil away with each step if the muddy conditions continue so ag pipe drains in the steps might also help to remove some water. The logs would have to be long enough so that you could put stakes to hold them in place well outside anywhere the horses are likely to tread (but you'd already figured that out). I'd also be trying to find some sort of mulching material that could be spread cheaply and readily that won't stick in their hooves - straw comes to mind but that could get expensive.

[Dave Hill]

We have local quaries that use contractors and they will deliver from aroiund 6 tons. Won't hurs to phone and ask. David Hill

[The Medway Handyman]

If all else fails Wickes sell it for £42 a tonne

and have a store in Barnstaple.

You anywhere near Woolacombe BTW?

[Andy Champ]

It's slightly soluble (that's why you get caves in limestone areas, and clints and grikes, and that sort of thing) and results in mildly alkaline runoff. Enough to mess up a sensitive soil.

Andy

[MrSlope]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a couple of miles south-east of Bideford. I've noticed that Wickes, B&Q and several other places advertisel "MOT type

1" without specifying what kind of stone it is. Am I correct in thinking that limestone would be preferable to other rocks for this particular job?

[Muddy Horse]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a couple of miles south-east of Bideford. I've noticed that Wickes, B&Q and several other places advertisel "MOT type

1" without specifying what kind of stone it is. Am I correct in thinking that limestone would be preferable to other rocks for this particular job?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ah. OK that finally makes sense.

Oh, it will work all right. Just seemed expensive. And complicated.