Home wind turbines dealt a blow

[The Natural Philosopher]

I never bothered. Denmark is all right, but not for the whole afternoon..

[Derek Geldard]

Start - ups?

That would be about 9,130 start up cycles.

DG

[sigvaldi]

The warm water that is used in Reykjav=EDk comes mostly from over 20 kms away. In Akranes in west Iceland it is over 50 km distance from the heating source. The heat in Iceland never comes straight from the ground.

[sigvaldi]

Where in Scandinavia is that done? (note: Iceland is to the north- west of the UK, Scandinavia is to the east of the UK)

[Huge]

Blimey, that's a bit strong. I worked in Copenhagen (well, OK, Bellerup) for a while and I rather liked it. And them.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I doubt the electrolytics would last 25 years..

[Derek Geldard]

There's more than a fair old chance the purchaser wouldn't last 25 years.

Or the building 8-|[

Playing the numbers game. Just a magic number, innit ?

DG

[Andy Hall]

Not even at

or is that run from natural gas?

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:32:48 +0000 someone who may be Derek Geldard wrote this:-

Nice try. However, incorrect. If you are referring to the repowering of Delabole you are clutching at straws.

[Peter Parry]

Not strictly true surely? It sometimes does. It's just that people tend not to build another town in the same place for a few centuries afterwards.

[sigvaldi]

quoted text -

The water at the Blue lagoon is fresh water heated up by the steam that comes from the heating plant at Svartsengi nearby. The Svartsengi plant also provides hot water for the Keflavik airport and the towns nearby.

[sigvaldi]

Sometimes as in what case? And what towns are you referring to that existed centuries ago in Iceland?

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:50:02 -0800 (PST) someone who may be sigvaldi wrote this:-

Does the water in the pool in the second photograph at

come straight from the ground very nearby? From memory it emerges from some rocks and goes down to the pool via a "pipe" made of flat stones.

However, I accept that a fair proportion of hot water now comes from further afield than was the case when many towns were first established.

[Guy Dawson]

I think that what sigvald is getting at is there is a water to water heat transfer involved at some stage. Hot, highly mineralised (think super, extra, double, mega hard!) water comes out of the ground and is used to heat 'normal' water obtained on the surface. The heated normal water is then used to heat things.

The reason for this is the the highly mineralised water scales things up very quickly and it's a good idea to restrict the amount of the system that gets scaled up.

Guy, geology A level

-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd [e-mail]

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh the odd Dane you meet over here is all right. Its the depressing mass of them all at once in their totally organised and oh so boring, But very clean and tidy, little country.

My overriding impression was, that on taking a ferry to Sweden,for the first time I saw a young couple *holding hands and smiling*

It was such a contrast it stuck in my mind.

I guess a counyty that is so depserately cold and dull, learns to regard waste of energy in laughing and smiling, to be a Mortal Sin. I hear the Finns are even worse. Sorry. I am a Latin at heart. Stick me somewhere in Spain or Italy, with everybody yelling and screaming and laughing, and I'll willingly trade teh neatness for a bit of passion..;-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well its a moot point as to where heat comes from directly..anyway, since it tends to travel via any conductive surface to where its cooler..

[sigvaldi]

Yes, it comes from nearby and is mixed with cold water to obtain bath temperature.

Utilisation of hot water for heating buildings in Iceland did not start until the 20th century, most towns used oil for heating until fairly recently.

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:33:37 -0800 (PST) someone who may be sigvaldi wrote this:-

My 1989 book on energy in Iceland, published by a variety of organisations in Iceland, says that until the late 19th century it was just used for bathing, washing and cooking.

During the first decade of the 20th century farmers started to heat their homes with water from hot springs nearby. In the 1920s and 30s many schools were located near geothermal areas to use water for heating the buildings and swimming pools.

In 1930 water was piped for 3km to heat the main hospital, a school and 60 houses in Reykjavik. Since then the system in the area has been developed. Other areas also developed their resources further since that time.

[Peter Parry]

Heimaey?

[Aidan Karley]

The Siberian towns I've worked in (and courted in) had CHP systems (Combined Heat and Power), but almost all of the piping is underground or inside the buildings. They were cities that had been built relatively recently. Baku, by contrast doesn't need a CHP system and doesn't seem to have one (in the 2 months over New Year that I worked there, I don't think it ever got below -7 centigrade), but they do have externally-fitted plumbing and wiring in what would otherwise be a very elegant city. Makes the place look like a psychotic rat's nest. CHP and public heating systems can be done well, be inconspicuous, and efficient. Similarly plumbing, electric power and telecommunications wiring can be totally bodged. Depend on the people doing the work (and also on the local planning regulations, I suppose).

In Noyabrsk, it was 2nd or 3rd week of September when the system came on. And at -55deg C you only open one of the layers of windows, taking the window down from effectively quadruple or quintuple glazing down to only double glazing. If the heating in an apartment block breaks down, people die (when I got there it had warmed up to a balmy -30deg C by day and barely -40deg C by night. But if you went another 500km North-East to Novy Urengoy (4 towns up the line ; about 36 hours and you're north of the Arctic Circle at last) you'd be into the serious cold and they'd have to fit the annual maintenence into just a couple of weeks. Of course, this is all the fault of building with cold materials like wood and stone. The natives have survived for milennia by not using wood or stone.