Hmm..OT




Nope, they are certificates and that might be why they are called that.

The original wasn’t a copy, it was a certificate.

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You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

It’s a certificate of the registry entry, not a copy of anything.

So is the certificate.

Nope, its not a copy of anything.

Its not a copy of anything. It just has the same data on it.
>> > The equality is absolutely true for death certificates

They are completely irrelevant to whether the original certificate is a copy of anything.

And nothing to do with whether it’s a copy of anything.
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On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:19:47 +0000, NY wrote:

Order online and yiu get them within about 5 days.
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On 28/11/2017 21:19, NY wrote:

Given that the document is marked Crown Copyright it has to be an original or the person making a certified copy is committing an offence. They can scan and keep a copy as proof of having seen an original.

It's about £4 each ordered at the same time as registration and unless the deceased's banking arrangements are very complex 2 or 3 will do. You do get them back and you need to allow for at least one being lost by an incompetent bank clerk if sending them off by post.
I don't know why they can't provide an online link (a la drivving license) that can be used by institutions to access details directly instead of moving pieces of certified archive quality paper around.

Yes they do, on the spot when you go to register something.
And will do it for historic certificates if you go to the right office.
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Yes this would be an excellent idea. Anything which gets rid of the faffing around and expense has to be a goof thing. I'm a firm believer in the policy of "you [the official department] want this sodding information, so you should have the hassle of obtaining it in whatever form will satisfy you - why should I, as the subject of the information, have to jump through hoops to satisfy your requirements". Let dept A talk directly to dept B without using the punter as the piggy in the middle.
After all, there's nothing in a birth certificate which proves that you are the person whose details are documented in it - as used as a plot device in The Day of the Jackal.
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On 29/11/2017 09:22, NY wrote:

And they now do check for that now so I don't see why they cannot take a full name and DOB and do all their own checks. They have the full database and must do a full check to avoid issuing dodgy passports.
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Gets messy tho with employers. Do we really want anyone who claims to be an employer being able to access all that personal data directly ?

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On 29/11/2017 18:09, Rod Speed wrote:

They can only access it once from a central HMG database with a one time key that you give to them. It is exactly how your UK drivers license is verified today when you go to hire a van or car in the UK.
https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/driving-record/licence-number
There is no reason that a similar online secure system would not work for BMD certificates and grant of probate. Moving paper is a PITA.
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But its more complicated with work visas where the visa can be withdrawn at any time because it turns out you lied on the original application etc. How is the employer supposed to be able to check that its still legal to employ you if you have to suppy a new one time key every time they need to do that check, say every payday.

Yes, but its harder with other stuff like work visas etc.

Yes, but it isnt that easy to provide an alternative that can't be maliciously exploited.
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wrote:

Nope, no reason why say a birth certificate can't be a new original.
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On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 20:45:44 UTC, FMurtz wrote:

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, if that has failed then there the local internet cafe or library where yo u can get printouts. My solicitor has accepted attached PDFs for certain th ings but not others in the same way as sometime a photocopy of a diocument will do whole with others you must have the original. Presently it seems th at death certificates are only accepted if they are the originals no photoc opies or emailed PDFs are valid not sure why.

You can get copies done from where the originals were from I think it cost about £8 per copy if after about a month, in the same way you can get copies of birth or marriage certs they have to be 'copied' from the origina l vendor of those certs. In the same way you can get printed bank statement s if needed by mortgage companies.
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On 27/11/2017 13:33, Martin Brown wrote:

+1.
And to make even more difficult, try and close a BS savings account when you also have no mobile phone or current passport.
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On 27/11/2017 16:31, Andrew wrote:

Wife got a letter from HMRC telling her she had overpaid tax and was due a refund of a little over 1000 pounds.
The options to get it were sign in to your online tax account and tell them to put it in your bank account in the next 3 days or wait 60 days and then they'd send you a cheque.
As she hadn't registered for an online tax account, we tried to set it up. She needed a copy of her P60 (you can get it from your employer - except she wasn't working any more and the refund was from tax overpaid on her pension!); driver's licence (it has expired and is in for renewal); passport (again expired and her still current Irish one is no good).
Alternatively, there are links to prove your ID through other routes - which in this case took her to Experian. Experian lead her through a number of questions, before deciding her only option was a UK passport!
Why couldn't they either send the damned cheque in the first place; send it after a week if you don't request an electronic payment; or just give a simple option to say you want a cheque - which is of course in your name and sent to your address anyway!
SteveW
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On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 23:36:58 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:

They don't want you to have the money. Why else?
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On 28/11/2017 23:36, Steve Walker wrote:

There is a trick to it. There is a box hidden somewhere on the tax form that says something like "send me a cheque" if overpaid.
Otherwise you can get into the loop that you have entered where they try to hang onto your money for as long as possible. Other way round and they hit you for a £100 fine immediately.

You have to tick the right box for that and it is cunningly hidden. (not the default which I thought was by electronic transfer)
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Try dealing with US financial companies. Many years ago I bought some shares when the company where I was working in a gap year before university floated on the stock exchange. The shares have gone through several transfers of ownership and are now owned by GEC in the USA, quoted in $US. Dealing with the company is difficult because of the time difference and not wanting to incur transatlantic phone calls.
I've decided to sell, but the registrar wants details of the share certificates - which I'm sure I've never had. There is the ridiculous situation that they have a record of how many shares I have, but I still need to produce some pieces of paper. Why isn't their entry on their computer the definitive record? There's a fairly hefty charge for replacing the missing certificates, but still a lot less than the chares will be worth. But they can't sell the shares and deduct the replacement charge out of the proceeds. Oh no. They want a US$ cheque (not even a bank transfer) in advance. They also want to send me the proceeds as a cheque, for which the cost of converting it to UK£ is another £100; for some reason they can't do it electronically.
Everything in their instructions is geared up for US citizens, and they make no allowances in their procedures for overseas people. I wish I'd sold the shares while they were still quoted in UK£ before the takeover...
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On 29/11/2017 09:30, NY wrote:

If it floated before the Big Bang you almost certainly did. They should be able to do a letter of indemnity or whatever they call it on the wrong side of the pond if you declare the certificates lost. It will be chargeable but not as expensive as reissuing certificates just to sell them. I expect they will want paying by a US$ cheque drawn on a US bank.
Do you know anyone in the USA who can make the payment for you? Then use paypal to reimburse them. Might be the least bad way to hold the balance in dollars too (rather than take an exchange rate hit and the risk of the pound going though the floor due to future Brexit cock ups).

You can get multicurrency accounts in the UK if the amount merits keeping it in dollars.

Of course - there is nothing outside the USA.
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On 29/11/2017 09:01, Martin Brown wrote:

There was no tax form. The tax had been taken at source from her pension payment, HMRC had identified themselves that she'd overpaid and the first we knew of it was a P800 calculation through the post saying she was due a repayment. That's where the going round in circles started, with not a single form to fill in!
SteveW
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On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 23:36:58 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:

w!

n
Be careful of this a friend recieved a similar 'offer' from the tax man via an email he said he tried to get the tax back quicker and was very annoyed he couldn't rememebr his PIN number after entering his bank account number into the website, I said why do they need your PIN number they already hav e access to put money into your account he said he didn't know. I asked him to forward the email to me and I notoiced by doing the usualy h over over barclays.bank address that it was a SCAM. which I forwared to barclays.
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On 29/11/2017 14:10, whisky-dave wrote:

No, this was an official P800 calculation through the post, with the figures for her pension, etc. We tried to register her for an online tax account directly from a .gov.uk site, but couldn't. After much messing about and a number of lengthy phone calls to HMRC, they did send the cheque. Which pleasingly, was credited to the account the same day (Saturday) that it was paid in.
SteveW
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