Heating Oil Tank fuel line regs

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

You want to get a coupling installed there pretty quick, then mate. That's going to leak like crazy.
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<grin>
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Graeme

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On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

No great seasonal variation? We go from < 1 cm/week in the summer to 5 cm/week in winter. That's cm on the sight tube which equates to about 25 l. Winter used to be over 6 cm/week before we got the wood burner...

So you have an U shaped line? Hum... not likely to freeze if it's greater than a foot under ground but could fill with water and restrict the oil flow. And no fire valve?
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Yes, huge seasonal variations. No sight glass, so I just use the Watchman readings which run from F (full) to 0 (empty). Last F reading was 16/06, followed by 9 21/06, 8 20/07, 7 02/08, 6 20/08 and 5 06/09. 4 will probably be this time next week.

Yes, always a danger I suppose, living in Aberdeenshire, but it has always been OK in the past, with plenty of ice and snow, and low temperatures.

Confess I had to Google fire valve to see what one looked like. Good news is yes, there is one, between the end of the copper pipe (from the tank) and the flexible hose to the boiler.
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On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:31:13 +0100, News wrote:

Wether the line gets ice blocked or water restricts the oil depends on how much water is in it. Without a water trap at the tank outlet once the water level in the tank reaches that level the line will slowly fill until one day... The water trap will probably also include a coarse filter which will keep most of the crap out of the line, which gets flushed down to the fire valve blocking it when you have to remove the water. Hopefully that won't be with 10" of snow on the ground and an ice day... I wasn't that lucky.

It really ought to be outside where the line enters the building.
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On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:36:31 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes wrote:


How does it know the cheapest stockist to call?
Spread of phone quotes I got on the 9th Sept 38.60, 33.53, 33.95, 31.90 (ex VAT). Difference between cheapest and dearest on 2250 l £158 (inc VAT)...
Onine sites gave 29.08 (but out of area), 32.15, 31.08, 30.26, 34.00.
We have a Watchman Alarm just in case we a get a visit. I read the sight tube every week and plug that into a spreadsheet to get an idea of consumption and project when we'll need more. Currently Mar 2017 but that will change in the next few months...
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On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:58:46 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Yes, it brings it home to you how much we get screwed over for fuel now that crude is a quarter the price is was a couple of years ago, but the retail price here has only come off about 15% or so. Robbin' bastards!
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/Yes, it brings it home to you how much we get screwed over for fuel now that crude is a quarter the price is was a couple of years ago, but the retail price here has only come off about 15% or so. Robbin' bastards! /Q
Yet heating oil is now half the price of a couple of years ago...
Jim K
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On 13/09/2015 11:33, Huge wrote:

Depends whether your tank oil level is higher than the burner. Oil will not flow uphill reliably. We have a Danish Heath-Robinson oil lifter device (oil tanks there are typically installed underground). I would *not* recommend it. Next time it will certainly be a Tiger loop.

These days they tend to fit a Watchman and if you are daft enough a contract for your local expensive oil supplier to fill it when it gets low automagically but at a premium price.
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Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft. Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract cannot obtain oil for love nor money. I prefer to be warm and daft rather than clever and cold.
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Graeme, Aberdeenshire

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On 15/09/2015 10:06, News wrote:

Never had a problem. Local group clubs together to get a decent price.
United we stand and divided we fall. It might be convenient to have an automagically filling fuel tank but you pay through the nose for it.
The only snag is our tank has a bad habit of running low during the long Xmas break. However, the wood burner back boiler can also run the CH so by running that harder the rate of oil consumption can be managed.
It has ended up running on vapour more than once...
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Yes, a local group has started here. I must investigate.
Most of the time, supply is not a problem. However, during a bad winter, main roads can be blocked preventing deliveries, or at least making deliveries extremely difficult. During the same period, demand skyrockets, of course, and the suppliers really do struggle to supply even their regular account customers. This is during periods when the council employ every JCB they can find to shift the snow moved by the ploughs. Snow is loaded onto trucks and dumped on local playing fields, or anywhere space is available and accessible.
During one of those periods, I contacted other suppliers and was told by some that they were not taking on any new customers, even account customers, and others said yes, join the queue, minimum 30 day delay for the first delivery. We can empty a full tank in that period.
We have an immersion heater, open fire, three bottled gas fires and numerous electric heaters for emergencies :-)
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On 15/09/2015 10:52, News wrote:

You may well have more severe weather than here in North Yorkshire. The longest we have been cut off for is about a week in winter 2010-11 I think. The main problem are spots where where deep drifts accumulate.
Usually they clear our narrow road within a couple of days since one of the snow plough drivers lives on it!

Maybe worth having a bigger tank then. Mine will last about four months from full in winter and the whole of summer. I log monthly consumption.
I agree that it isn't a good idea to ring up wanting fuel in the middle of a cold snap but then I try very hard not to be in that position.

No electric generator? We need that to keep the CH pump and boiler running when the winter storms take out the electricity. Otherwise we end up with lashings of very hot water and one heated room.
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 12:26:43 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

least

Winters 9/10 10/11 some of the roads around here where closed for weeks. But they do try and keep the road to Brampton/A69/Carlisle/Newcastle open for emergency access, we only have one fire engine and ambulance both on the retained basis. One fire engine can't put out a house once it's well alight, needs two or three... Ambulance could possibly keep you alive until the Great North Air Ambulance could air lift you out. But that can't fly at night or when it's blowing (which it does quite a bit in the winter). Guess they could call an RAF S&R Sea King out, I think they can fly at night and in far worse conditions.

find

trucks and

Don't you have snow blowers? The one around here works wonders:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/5228772002 https://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/4266029154

Cut off as in no road access at all even the ploughs are stuck doesn't last long 24 hours tops. Might still need a 4x4 and winter tyres though.

full

Must have a small tank was my thought as well. Ours is a nominal 2500 l and we buy 2000 l a time. That'll last a similar 3 or 4 months in winter.

So do I it doesn't take much to track consumption, project for when levels will be getting a low and watch the actual weather trend. Worst comes to worst I have a couple of drums that I could take to the local oil suppliers 4 miles away (walk and drag on sledge if neccessary). That's assuming they have some dregs left in the bottom of their storage...

and

Small genset is essential IMHO. When an ice storm took out the 11 kV distribution in several places including snaped poles, we were off supply for 36 hours plus. It wouldn't have been very comfortable without being able to run the CH and it would have stayed uncomfortable for several days afterwards as the 30 odd tonnes of passive stone through the center of the house would have cooled down significantly.
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On 15/09/2015 17:57, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I think you are more in the wilds than I am. We are about a mile off a major trunk road but down a very narrow lane that doesn't really go anywhere. Luckily a snow plough driver lives past us.

We have been hard cut off for longer with occasional breakthroughs but when the wind blows over fields of powder snow a new snow drift quickly re-establishes in the stall zones even when it isn't snowing.

I'd say it was essential if you live in the wilds.

I have three similar containers. Never needed to use them so far.

They leave us until last if things go pear shaped all the engineers get sent to Middlesbrough and Teesside to sort out the cities first rather than the little rural villages of the North York moors and Dales.
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:58:43 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The county councils normally have a gritting map that shows the routes and time scales they try to grit and plough to. We are right on the C3039 that runs down to the village so that gets cleared and kept open if they can. Those with private tracks tend to park a car at the top of their track if the weather looks to be getting Bad(*). This is fine until it gets really Bad and the cars get buried, the plough then can't see them... This is not good as the V plough (as opposed to the striaght blade) needs to be doing 20 to 30 mph through 18" or more lying snow so there is enough momentum trnsfered to the snow to fling it out of the way. Even then a few yards of a 3' drift will stop it.

Aye, when that happens the ploughs just keep driving around the loops, cycle time for here is about 20 mins. A foot or more can have built back up in that time.

bottom

My containers are empty they had red in for the generator. I was wondering last night if I ought to get one filled with kero "just in case" but sort of came to the conclusion that I monitor consumption and the weather well enough that it would never get used.

Number of customers off supply from a given fault is a major governing factor. I sometime wonder how long we'd be off if the 11 kV spur that feeds only us fell over/broke during a big storm that caused a lot of other damage. I can envisage them just pulling the fuseable links where it T's off the main line to isolate the fault to bring others back on supply, leaving us in the dark. Still with the genset life isn't too bad, perhaps refilling those 10 gallon drums with red would be a better idea. trouble is last time I looked the red pump at the gaarge was 96p/l, thats a tad pricey. With kero down at 32 p/l red ought to be about 50 p/l.
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 08:58:43 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

I think it was about 1984 when we lived in rural Norfolk we (and the whole village of 1100) were cut off by a heavy snow fall for 4 days. Highways dug out one route in only for an HGV to jack knife in it, and become covered in drifting snow on day 5 cutting us off again for a further 3 days! The major contributor was that all 4 roads to the village had long sections 3 to 6 feet below the level of surrounding flat fields so easily filled with drifting snow.
No electricity for most of the time was not a major problem for us as I had a generator. Plus we used a solid fuel AGA and wood burning stove so heating, hot water and cooking was as normal. The generator was essential for water as we were on a private bore. Neighbours who relied on oil heating and electric cooking were not so lucky. No electricity meant no water (hot or cold), no heat, no cooking, little lighting.
Myself and two other Land Rover owners devised a route almost to the A47 across the fields where the snow had blown away. One last ditch prevented us getting to the road but another Land Rover club member ferried basic supplies including prescriptions from the town.
Here in Leyburn, North Yorkshire we live on the road leading to the highways salt and snow plough depot so the road is always cleared. Unfortunately our access to the road is via a 300m roadway shared with some retirement flats which highways do not clear and has quite a steep slope in. On at least 8 occasions in the past 11 years this have been impassable due to snow to all but foot traffic. After the first such winter I invested in an ex MOD 24inch 8hp Snapper snow blower...
Mike
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:51:33 +0100, Muddymike wrote:

Guess it depends on the width the ditch diagonal drive across would have been possible with center diff lock on. One wheel in free space at a time isn't a problem. Or no farmer with some railway sleeper size lumps of wood that could be borrowed? "Standard" sleeper is 8' 6" long 10" wide and 5" thick. Might the need four, one each side of the ditch to spread the load and two across on top.

If we were at the end of track I'd have something to clear it, maybe a "pre loved" back hoe/front loader of some sort as it would have other uses, lifting, moving, heavy things.
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:51:33 +0100, Muddymike wrote:

No. This one was wider than the length of my Land Rover, but had a foot bridge over it for a public path.
Mike
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[44 lines snipped]

4 days. Four days in the dark, surrounded by light pollution & distant streetlights. Four days with no telly, central heating, lighting, WHY. And when the bastards came and fixed it, it took about 10 minutes & the guy asked why we hadn't rung up and complained more. Next time, I shall be on the 'phone every hour.
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Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 40th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3181
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