Handyman 0 - Angle Grinder 1.

[Andy Hall]

True. However, in both cases you were paying tax because you were working and then are not and without PHI are taking support from the state. Leaving aside how good they are and the Brown rip-off, pension schemes are tax exempt on the way in. It would seem reasonable for PHI, which is effectively doing a similar thing under different criteria, to be similarly catered for in tax terms.

On products I've seen, the benefit is RPI linked as long as the premium is increased on an RPI basis as well. Earnings increases above RPI are another issue of course.

As far as investment is concerned I was thinking of it more in terms of if one bought an insurance with premiums of X with no payout at the end, as opposed to one at X + Y with payout. In effect, you will have invested Y. That's out of net income. If you paid tax on the proceeds, it would be double taxation.

[nightjar]

You are not supposed to take the money out. The idea of key man insurance is to cover the cost of employing a suitably qualified replacement, not to pay the person insured.

Colin Bignell

[Andy Hall]

Understood, but if it's a one person or small number of people business, that may not be worthwhile or even possible - e.g. if there's a specific expertise, customer relationship etc....

[Andy Dingley]

Not usually where the business itself is the source of risk though. "Key man" is usually for safeguarding mission-critical accountants and programmers who aren't likely to be injured by work, but would be sorely missed in the rare chance that they fell under a bus. It's not there for anything seen as inherently "high risk" and the insurers won't touch it under that policy (and scale of premium), which is why "key man" is generally pretty cheap to buy.

My own key man insurance (software business) was later invalidated by my involvement in another business (chainsaw juggling).

[nightjar]

In that case, key man is not the right insurance policy and the insurers could refuse to pay out, if the money is not going to be used as intended.

Colin Bignell

[nightjar]

Even the self-employed have a statutory duty to make adequate provision for first aid at work. Given the risk level of the type of work you do, you are probably breaking the law by not having a kit with you at all times.

Colin Bignell

[Chris Hodges]

nightjar Even the self-employed have a statutory duty to make adequate provision for

You're right - but for what definition of "with"? Taking extra kit up a ladder or onto a roof sounds like a way to increase the risks, but climbing down gushing blood doesn't sound like a good idea either.

[Andy Hall]

That would depend on the terms of the policy. If the individual being replaced is that easy to find, then there would be no point in having the insurance in the first place. Implicit would be a certain skill set and probably a set of customer relationships.

[The Medway Handyman]

Lesson learned Colin - it's now in the car.

[The Medway Handyman]

Hmmmm. Can't really take a dressing kit with me wherever I go, especially up a ladder. Fortunately I wasn't gushing blood, just leaking a bit. I do make sure my mobile is always with me, so I could have called for help.

[nightjar]

A single large wound dressing doesn't take up a lot of space and would probably be adequate for most things that need immediate attention. A more comprehensive kit in the vehicle would then cover anything less critical.

Colin Bignell

[Huge]

The most cost-effective way of doing it is to have 2 policies - one that starts straight away but only lasts a short time and another that lasts the rest of your life but doesn't start for, say, 3 months. The first policy covers the gap until the second kicks in. The short duration of the first and the delay before the commencement of the second keeps the costs down.

This is what I used to do when I was self-employed.

[Huge]

You think the Revenue and the DSS actually *talk* to one another?

[keith_765]

Next time use a plugging chiesel and lump hammer. Re fix with Bora Clips for lead.

[Andy Hall]

It seems unlikely, I agree.

[Dave Liquorice]

These days I doubt people talk but everything is on computer and I bet they talk.

[AJH]

Not yet and in most cases neither to HSE otherwise our handyman would be late in filling out his riddor form.

AJH

[Dave Liquorice]

Interesting my current policy has a 4 week delay, I just managed to get a few days out of it when I was off before Christmas the other year. I'm seeing my financial advisor tommorow as well. Humm... Having something kick in straight away would be nice to top up the IB.

[keith_765]

I have to deal with three inland revenue offices, Glasgow, Liverpool and my Local office, even theses three don't talk to each other.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Absolutely. My office is the one which deals with freelance TV types etc somewhere in the frozen north, yet my local office keeps on sending me demands which I ignore. Threats about fines over not receiving a return (which they've not sent me anyway) yet this is done religiously by my accountant for me. And yes, I've seen it every year as I have to sign it.