Grade II properties, electrics and woodworks

[James Salisbury]

I am considering buying a grade II terraced cottage. It is obvious that all the widows, external doorframes and timber cladding need replaceing. Any suggestions on what may be permitted?

The REC's mains wiring is attached to the cladding and will need to be disterbed in order for the cladding to be replaced. It looks like this wiring dates back to the 1950's The mains appeares out of the pavement and rises into a green painted rusty iron box, the mains cable outter sheath lookes to be wrapped. Cables then go from this box to the various properties, passing over the front of the property I am thinking of purchasing, these cables have a braided cover. What is the best way of approaching this problem. The internal wiring of the property was replaced 3 years ago.

Any suggestions of a good survayor in the South Oxford area?

Thanks

[Ian]

Hi

As to what you can do, Speak to the council as they will be able to tell you what you can and cant do. In theory you can do what you like BUT you have to get permission first. Find out if the listing is the whole buliding or just the facade, Ours has the whole frontage listed including the stone guttering. The good thing about listing is that you will be able to get the work done VAT free. Dont expect any grants unless its very spectacular and unique. by the sounds of it its not. Also is it in a conservation area? as this will also limit what you can do.

Good luck.

[James Salisbury]

I suspect it is the whole building dates back to 1690, it is also in a conservation area, in the middle of Wantage.

[Peter Parry]

Don't. Only once you fall under the curse of English Heritage and the Listed Buildings Nincompoop will you know that Hell really exists.

Nothing unless its done by an "approved" contractor. Even then 90% of the way through the LBO is likely to change and the new one alter everything no matter what the cost to you.

The catch with listed buildings is that they must be preserved in the state they were in at the date of listing, not the date of construction. If this included shoddy rubber wiring and rusty boxes then you must restore the shoddy wiring and rusty boxes. The fact that you can't get the cable any more won't bother the LBO too much - they will have a cousin somewhere who can hand make it, in an organic ecologically sound co-operative, for only GBP250 per yard.

[BillR]

The general advice here is to avoid listed properties. They are a lot of hassle. Most likely you will have to make it look exactly as it is now.. WRT the elec supply; you will have to find out where the elec company's responsibility ends and negotiate with them for a new supply connection. If your neighbours are going to be cut off while this is done you need to find out the legal basis of the cables feeding them being attached to your property. You will probably have to pay for temp and new supplies for your's and the other properties. The elec coy won't connect new without a full test of the internal wiring... So the hassle goes on ... and on..

Nice area though, I drove around there last week.

[Ian]

English heritage have nothing to do with works on domestic listed buildings.

Wrong..

Sort of correct on one point, In respect that its the date of listing , The rest is total rubbish. As an owner of a listed Building you are encouraged to keep it up together and that includes wiring and windows. yes they have to be in keeping but can be of the most modern of materials.

And this property will only be listed due to its age, not because its of any particular importance as long as it looks the same no problem. In my village there are some approved Upvc Sash windows in listed buildings.

Ian

[Andy Farrall]

My guess and I HOPE that you will have to "repair" rather than replace timbers. There are a few companies (as well as lots of local joiners) who specialise in timber window rennovation etc.

If you are intent on the replace rather than repair policy then DO NOT BUY a listed building. As the owner of a listed building you have a responsibility to maintain it sympathetically. An owner of a listed builiding is merely a caretaker of a peice of OUR heritage.

Andy

[Colin]

I thought that you could only get the work zero rated for VAT if it was new work? Would what the OP proposes constitute zero rating?

Colin

[Colin]

I think the amount of hassle you get depends on the area and the particular LBO you get. They certainly seem to vary around here. One is liberal but inconclusive, the other is strict but specific... take your choice...

Colin

[The Natural Philosopher]

Replacement will NOT be permitted. Repair will be. Where could you get a replacement widow anyway? :-)

I would say rip it all out, install a proper modern external meter box and new tails, and talk to the listing peple about what is permitted externally.

[The Natural Philosopher]

There is no such thing as an approved contractor, but there are ones who are known to be able to work to teh guidelines. needless t say they are not cheap...

Not necessarily, at all. If you have windows made of iron in stone mullons, that is what you have to use to repair/replace. UPVC ain't on mate!

*shudder*. They must have bribed the inspector. Out here they make you phsysically reapir the crappy pine window frames.

[The Natural Philosopher]

But with the responsibility to reapir at the owners huge expense.

There are sme listed nissen huts in my village. The owner is letting them fall down.

Its the only option open to him.

[Ian]

Not so I have replacement sash windows in the same style of the old ones . No proplem with the listing people at all.

The problems seem to be when an area only has a few listed buildings and normally for no reason other than age the LBO is a bit over zelous. Here they have far to much on being a world heritige site, AONB, and conservation area. They are more worried about decent listed buildings not the rest of the chaf.

Ian

[Andy Farrall]

If you wish to undertake the task ie custodian of a national treasure then thats the price you pay - if not then dont buy a listed building (or one thats likely to get listed).

And then he'll almost certainly have to put em back up again at his (or insurance company's) expense.

[Grunff]

Bwahahahahaaaaa! Haaaaaa!

National treasure. There's an interesting term. It's amazing what gets passed off as a national treasure for the purposes of listing.

When will people like you understand - buildings are ephemeral - they all are, from the lowliest mud hut to the greatest castle. Some may last tens of years, some may last thousands - but sooner or later they all fall.

What is the point of imposing stupid restrictions on what someone can and can't do with their property? To preserve it forever?? It's totally meaningless.

[Harvey Van Sickle]

On 14 Dec 2003, Ian wrote

-snip-

I think you'll find that if a building is listed the *whole* of the building is listed, including any modern extensions. (Similarly, any additions you make will also fall under the listing, unless they're so radical that they cause the listing to be removed -- in which case they'd be unlikely to get consent in the first place.)

Buildings like yours, of course, may well have been listed because of certain specific features (like the facade and guttering), but it still means that the *whole* of the building is statutorily listed, and any work -- to *any* part of it -- will still need LBC. (It may wind up being a formality, but failing to get consent before doing the work would still be a statutory offence.)

[The Natural Philosopher]

No. Read the small print. You are under no obligation to repair a listed building, only to repair to a standard IF you repair AT ALL.

Many listed building are being lost precisely because of this catch 22 situation.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not always. 8THIBGS* like e.g. a historically interesting outside toilet, my be lisetd but the rest not...:-)

(Similarly,

[Huge]

[17 lines snipped]

I have 2 friends who live in listed houses. This has happened to both of them.

[Huge]

Well, the latter bit's true; don't buy a listed building.

What a nice tolerant person you are when it comes to other people's property.