gas safe plumbers: greedy and unethical?

[stuart noble]

This is where the manufacturer's engineers (or someone who specialises) score. They can just stick a new pcb in to see if it solves the problem

[geoff]

Steady on using that word in the same sentence as plumbers

You certainly seem to have more faith in their general level of competence than I do

Don't underestimate the ability of a ch fitter to find "another fault" which they can then charge a a bit more for

Really?

It would prolly end up being cheaper to drive over there and just swap out the pcb and sensor

[geoff]

No there aren't

[geoff]

Or looked at another way, its quite often cheaper to put in one of my pcbs than the cost of calling out a fitter (who'll prolly change the pcb anyway whether it is defective or not)

[ARWadsworth]

He has installed some solar powered rope lights.

[Fred]

Would someone ask to buy parts only from a tradesman though? I would have thought you would cut out the middle man and buy direct from the plumbers merchant/electrical wholesaler/etc.

[Fred]

Sorry, it was never my intention to start a war about tradesmen. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that gas safe was disliked in these parts for being a monopoly. My grumble was directed to gas safe plumbers who did not want to visit and diagnose a fault but wanted to install a new boiler instead. True, there may be times when this is the best option but surely they need to visit and look first to make that decision?

I didn't mean for the debate to expand and offend tradesmen from other fields who post here. I think you are right that it is different for every trade. As others replies have suggested: a garage may not keep items in stock and will have daily deliveries, which is a different set of considerations to a plumber or electrician who has to rent and insure and secure a warehouse full of copper.

[Fred]

I did wonder that. I don't have any experience of boilers so they are outside of my comfort zone. I could swap a pcb but I wouldn't know what sensors are fitted, which one to swap, or even what they looked like!

The tenants came back from their holiday and have told me the first plumber used X-ray vision to diagnose the fault. He stood in front of the boiler, switched it on, and when it did not fire he said it needed a new pcb. If only I had known that sooner!

A new plumber has been and changed an air flow sensor and that seems to have fixed it. He also repressurised the existing expansion vessel.

Thanks for all your help.

[John Rumm]

Did not see it as a "war", but it raises interesting questions. It is worth noting that the realities of running any business can be very different from how someone only ever looking from the customers side can view them though.

Not really a gas safe issue. However there are many aspects to this. In some cases it may be they just lack diagnostic skills. In others it might be a pragmatic business decision based on hard experience (i.e. in the past they went to assess and fix, but enough stuff broke shortly after due to old age, however they then got the blame from the customer etc). In others it may simply be that they have enough more profitable work on offer to keep them fully occupied.

The key point is that any business has costs, and not all of these are obvious - especially to non business people. Also the purpose of the business at its simplest level is to earn an income for its owner(s). Now providing a public service may be how it does that, but that is not the same as having an obligation to provide that service in every case or at a price that may suit every potential customer.

So in your case, you may have just been unlucky. It may have been that to the people you talked to it sounded like what you wanted was unreasonable or risky to them.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You are assuming each and every part the microprocessor controls gives feedback to that unit to give its state.

Such a device doesn't tell you about every possible fault on a car.

[John Rumm]

or more fundamentally, that it even has a processor in the first place!

[tony sayer]

In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus

Maybe .. but it's a lot better then telepathy;!..

[tony sayer]

I reckon they must have all the ones I've seen and quite old ones have a processor of some sort.

After all its all software is it now and duff dry joints;!..

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd expect those who are being paid to repair a boiler to be able to diagnose faults from the symptoms.

[charles]

Until recently you didn't need to be an electronics tecnician to be able to repair a boiler - merely a plumber..

[Dave Plowman (News)]

My original system - self installed in the '70s - had a considerable amount of electrics. It would be an early system which didn't have any at all. Modern systems simply have more. It is surely up to a trades person taking your money to make sure they are up to the requirements of fixing it?

[charles]

I'd disagree. Electrics, yes, gas boiler have alwasy needed some form of control, but modern boilers have a lot more than that.

It appears not to be the case.

[tony sayer]

In article , Dave Plowman (News) scribeth thus

Great expectations then Dave;!...

[tony sayer]

In article , charles scribeth thus

Until recently a garage mechanic or fitter didn't need a laptop..

.. They do now;!..

[Andy Wade]

No, John's point is valid. A Baxi board [*] I fixed for someone a couple of years ago had little more than a few quad op-amps (324s, IIRC) and relay driver transistors. Certainly no microcontroller, and 'analogue computer' would be too grand a title.

[*] From a boiler made in around Y2K. Not particularly recent, but hardly antique, and still lots in service I'd expect.