I have.
So was I (albeit a long time ago in 8-bit), and I do.
In fact, the more you think about it, the ultimate back door would be something baked into the silicon which would make the overlying OS an irrelevance. Some way to elevate a process privilege being the most obvious - load some registers with some defined values and execute a reserved opcode.
En el artículo , Jethro_uk escribió:
It's already there, and has been for quite some time. Google Intel AMT.
"Intel provides a remote management toolkit called AMT for its business and enterprise-friendly processors; this software is part of Chipzilla's vPro suite and runs at the firmware level, below and out of sight of Windows, Linux, or whatever operating system you're using. The code runs on Intel's Management Engine, a tiny secret computer within your computer that has full control of the hardware and talks directly to the network port, allowing a device to be remotely controlled regardless of whatever OS and applications are running, or not, above it"
And it's already been shown to be vulnerable:
Fair enough, I do as well actually, in fact I am concerned about all of them, even my pet stalker, Tomlinson!
But as with all of them, I try to be the 'bigger man' and not stoop to their level. If I did it would be like shooting dish in a barrel because they are obviously having a difficult time of it already. ;-(
It is difficult sometimes eh. ;-)
The thing is, this is a d-i-y newsgroup and yet they think they are on some sort of Linux advocacy group?
Cheers, T i m
However this still would not constitute a security breach. Merely a vulnerability.
To any CPU that doesnt have a firewall round it.
On 02/06/17 16:48, T i m wrote: The thing is, this is a d-i-y newsgroup and yet you think you are onsome sort of Windows advocacy group...
Erm. BS mate.
1) Statistically, 80% of the people here using PC's and Laptops would be running Windows. Therefore there would be no point advocating the incumbent OS.2) I have and never will advocate Windows to anyone, again, partly because a) I don't need to (they already know and use it) and b) because I just wouldn't, what would be the point.
What you might be confused about though is me stating *facts* like 'most hardware would be built with Windows in mind' because 'Most PC's come with Windows'. You may not like that fact and you are welcome to disagree with it but it won't alter it being an unquestionable fact.
See, the difference between you and I (and I know you can't help it) is that I can think of how 'most people' might see / consider all this whereas you can only see things from your personal and defensive, backed into a corner (because you are a Linux advocate) POV.
People generally only advocate things they have made a personal choice to get. Most people get Windows because that represents 80% of the desktop market so they are nearly bound to.
You hate Windows, I don't hate Linux (or I wouldn't *choose* to use / play with it). You *have* to use Windows because there are still things you can do best in Windows, I don't have to use Linux (or OSX etc) because there is nothing I can do in either I need to do or can't do in Windows (LiveDVD / Gparted accepted but there are Windows Boot CD equivalents, like Acronis).
If you really hated Windows you wouldn't have bought a Laptop with it on and kept it on eh?
I've never bought a Linux PC or Laptop because I wouldn't want to take the cost hit over buying one with Windows on and installing Linux on there myself (as many Linux users do if course).
So, any more 'non truths' you want to have a go at making up?
Cheers, T i m
BS! I have never, ever denied such a thing (and you are welcome to cite anything that proved otherwise).
Again, I think the red mist and defensive position is clouding what I think could otherwise be reasonable judgment mate.
Ok. If you suggest that Linux could (you would say is) 'more secure' that Windows against say viruses and malware, I'd probably agree with you.
If you then go on to suggest that that would therefore make Linux 'better' than Windows and for the reasons 'most people' would consider it better, I'd have to disagree with you.
You might think a car that does 0-60mph in 3 seconds to be 'better' than a car that takes 13 seconds but many wouldn't take the 5mpg over the 50 mpg just for that.
And think about it ... why would I run Linux (and OSX and Android) if I only liked Windows or thought it the best thing since sliced bread.
The only reason I run it as my daily desktop is for *ME* it offers the easiest and best range of general support for more hardware and software than anything else. Simples.
Now, if I had come from programming or mainframe background ...
Cheers, T i m
Well it's Dennis, what d'ye expect? Objectivity?
It is generally considered by the experts that there is a wider range of software available for Windows.
It's horses for courses. Let's face it, they are _both_ full of bugs...
Andy
I stand corrected.
I suspect most Samba stacks are running Linux. It's only guys like you (and me, to a lesser extent) who run things like Warp...
Andy
Secret? Really?
First google hit is the Wikipedia page on it. Second is Intel's doc. Third is the vulnerability doc on Intel's servers.
I should think every sysadmin in the world knows about it. I knew about it, and that's never been more than 1% of my job.
Andy
==> running *on* linux?
Actually, it's FreeBSD!
Quite and why there is still loads of kit that require a PC running XP to control it.
My mate bought a big flat-bed router (for cutting out sink holes in granite worktops etc) and that also 'only' ran on XP. ;-( [1]
Indeed ... so, of you aren't a geek or a programmer and just want to use stuff as an appliance then Windows is probably your best bet.
The other thing is the sort of help you get when you ask for it. If I come across an issue using something with Windows I can generally Google to a solution that is both easy to apply and generally works. I can't remember ever having to ask for help with Windows on any newsgroup or forum.
When I have asked for help, help is normally what I am given because the people offering it generally do actually want to help.
It's a similar game on Apple gear.
With Linux however ... there are so many variables that *can* have a massive impact on the outcome ... kernel version, distro and distro version, desktop environment, library / program versions (often not the latest if updated via the repos) etc etc.
A good example of the 'difference' between say Windows and Linux is how often the Windows driver / program installer will cater for all versions of Windows from XP to W10, 32/64 bit, whereas you often have to make sure you find and install the right version for your Linux system yourself.
Then, whilst asking for help on Linux you dare to mention that the PC was 'running fine' under Windows, it's just when you reboot it into Linux that things seem to do awry and worse, admit you actually find Windows ok, easier to fix when it goes wrong and has a greater range of (fully) compatible (and formally supported) hardware, software and support (paid and free) and the red mist falls (like it was news to them or you (and the other 80%) were just making it up). ;-(
You would *think* they would go the extra mile to ensure every person at any level got help on Linux that actually helped ... to make as many people possible happy ... except they don't want that, they want to keep *their* system to themselves and away from the infidels ... ;-(
Well, it's good to have a hobby I guess. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
[1] While they were getting used to programming said cutter they got it cutting a sink hole in a 6' long granite worktop. All was going well till it finished as someone had forgotten to add the 'raise cutter' command before sending it out over the back of the job. ;-(
There are more than 48,000 packages in the Debian repos. Windows has more?
Yes, but some have less bugs than others:
Coverity finds open source software quality better than proprietary code.
En el artículo , Vir Campestris escribió:
I really, really doubt they do
me too.
How many are good, functional and fully supported though?
Windows may have more of the things some people actually want. Like I want car diagnostic tools, or the ability to access / update my GPS, or the iTunes store, or update the BIOS on my motherboard or pretty well any hardware you can buy for a PC or game you can run on a PC.
Tux Racing isn't GTA and not all games are available under Steam.
But of little concern if you can't get what you want to work in the first place.
I've been in IT / IT support for over 40 years and yet I still don't know (personally) of a single person who I could turn to for real world Linux support.
There are a few who could help me with Apple IOS stuff and I rarely need help with Windows (but *any* high street PC shop or next doors kid would be able to help, should I require).
As has been mentioned elsewhere, for the ordinary desktop PC user, Linux really isn't any sort of solution, unless you only need a WP / web terminal or have only basic and fairly set PC needs. That's not to say Linux isn't a very powerful tool or can't be very versatile / flexible solution, because it obviously can, but not generally in the hands of those just looking for an easy solution and not a new hobby.
Now, when all the old-skool Linux zealots die off (as they are all old now ) and the new Linux blood kicks in, maybe we will see Linux evolve faster and become the *modern* / easy to manage desktop OS we all know it could be. I'm not sure when though ... considering how much money Mr Shuttleworth has thrown at Ubuntu and it's still basically the 'same old' Linux with it's flaws and limitations.
As soon as I find the same general level of support (hardware / software) and assistance for Linux as I current enjoy with Windows I will be one of the first to use it, until it does it will remain just a second choice / experimental alternative here.
Cheers, T i m
Oh, yes. I'm working on Android kernel stuff at the moment, and my main dev box is Ubuntu. But I have to have a Windows laptop too, so I can run the corporate telephone app, and the programmer for one of the devices we connect, and a few other things. Microsoft Outlook probably doesn't count.
The closed source projects may of course be self selected:
"For this latest Coverity Scan Report, the company analyzed code from more than 750 open source C/C++ projects as well as an anonymous sample of enterprise projects."
If you have a problem you are more likely to go with them. But I can believe it. Their figures (0.59 vs 0.72 for defect rate) are close enough that I wouldn't want to say they are wrong.
They also imply that those people who claim that Linux is the answer to all bugs are wrong. It probably has (0.59/0.72) = 82% of the bug rate that Windows has.
Andy
And that is my point (and without realising it, and would be the point of many millions of people who have never even heard of, let alone even tried to use Linux as an alternative desktop OS ITRW), it's not what it can do (as it often does that pretty well) but what it can't.
OOI Andy, could you do *all* you need to do (inc dev work etc) on Windows or is any of that stuff Linux only?
Cheers, T i m
Android kernel development requires either Linux or Mac (spit).
Andy
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