My daughter want to replace the picture rails in her house. It's an 1890s property with lath and plaster walls and the plaster is in generally good condition.
Would gluing be the best option in this case? If so, approximately how many cartridges of a product like No More Nails would I need for 18 x 2.4m lengths?
Tim
I'd search for the timber uprights and nail the picture rails to them.
Screw them. You don't want to be banging nails in lath and plaster.
Cheers
But what about glue? Any reason not to use it?
Tim
Depends on the load. If the rail is decorative or just for light use, no problem at all - the glue is strong, but the plaster may not be.
Cheers
The glue is only as good as what it's stuck to. You're likely to end up with a picture rail lying on the floor with a chunk of paint and plaster dust glued to the back of it.
Te same goes for any fixing.
The advantage of glue is that it spreads the load over a far wider area than a screw would.
I think you'd be OK with a no-more-mails type product, providing she's not hanging Old Masters from the rail. As for how many tubes, I should think a thin bead top and bottom edge of the rail (or a zig-zag if you prefer) and would expect to get three lengths out of a tube, I've been using Screwfix solvent free "can't believe it's not nails" it's under £2 a tube, so buy 10 and take any left-overs back IYCBA.
I've been using it for skirtings/architraves/expamet plasterboard corner beads it grabs well, I have been pinning some of them, just so I can move on to the next without worrying about slipping, but it goes off fairly quickly, you could probably hold the rail in place for under a minute if you want to avoid nailing the laths, or the hassle of locating them to screw into them.
Yeah, but screws or nails will be going into the studding behind, which should give a reliable fixing. I'd always be wary of trusting 100 + yo plaster, though I'm not opposed in principle to gluing things.
The other thing about gluing them up is that the walls are unlikley to be flat. So it's quite likely that thee will be some need for mechanical fixings at some point as well to hold it tight against the wall.
Of course, it's unlikely that they will need to be fixed to the old plaster, as pulling off the old ones is bound to make a mess of the old stuff underneath which will need patching at least. This is one of those jobs in an old house that always seems to lead to mission creep.
I'm wondering why she want to replace them?
Yes - it is only as strong as the plaster skim it's attached to.
As has been said, screw it to the studs. The original would have been nailed - but less chance of damage screwing it.
That is not a unassailable assumption.
I wouldn't have thought glue good for sideways force. Pictures (actually the glass) can be quite heavy
Not if the screw goes into something solid like the timber uprights
They'd probably be every 15 inches.
Unless the walls are dead flat fixings are going to be necessary at some points just to hold it in position, so I'd use a combination of screws and a Gripfil type adhesive. IME trying to get the rail to follow the wall is a bad strategy. Fix the rail so that *it* is straight, and fill behind. It creates the illusion of straightness and nobody notices the filler
You'll have a bigger hole in the rail to fill if you use screws.
actually glue is best at sideways force (shear) its often worst at tensile force.
Is this "replace" as in "take down old and put up new" or as in "put up new where someone in the past has taken down old"? From the comments you have had different people may be making different assumptions.
And if you decide to drill then IMLE don't be surprised if some of that lath and plaster turns out to have been patched with stuff that's as hard as Coade stone :(
In message , Chris French writes
Chris, *every* job in an old house leads to mission creep :-)
We're in the middle of decorating a bedroom. Simple enough? Well, yes, the actual slapping paint on is straightforward, but getting to that stage takes forever. Repair sash windows that have probably not been opened since before the war. Notice lovely brass fittings covered in a hundred years of paint. Remove to clean. Dig paint out of screw slots first. Remove, tumble, polish. Lift carpet. Room had en suite facilities added 30 years ago, and heating 12 years ago. Realise what a mess the floor boards are. Repair. Notice skirting not fixed properly in places. Repair. Notice gaps here there and everywhere. Use filler and caulk. Notice ridge on skirting where most people didn't bother to lift carpet. Sand smooth. Fill numerous small holes from old picture hooks etc. Sand smooth. Decide to use lining paper on one wall to cover still visible repair to crack, decades old. The list goes on ...
If taking down old to fit new, you'll see where the studs are by the nail holes.
If it has already been removed, you might also see them by the patching - unless it's been skimmed, or more likely had plasterboard fitted.
True. Definitive way is to make up some plugs out of the scrap ends and glue them into a recessed countersunk hole.
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