Fire doors - changes to existing 2nd floor room

[peterd]

I'm having some work done in the top floor room in my semi-detached house. Its a large room that stretches from the front to the back of the house and the full width, except for under eaves storage on three sides. There is a small dormer window to the front. We're having a large dormer fitted on the rear and the space separated into a landing, bathroom and bedroom. The building reg's people at the local council are insisting on self-closers on all the doors of rooms on the first and ground floors and as two are partly glazed, these would need to be replaced or boarded up. The top room is an integral part of the house and both it and its staircase were constructed at the same time as the rest of the house - over 100 years ago - this is not a loft conversion. The builders seem happy to go along with the building reg's people (it's not their house !) but I want to argue that this is not a loft conversion and so the specific fire related building regs do not apply. Question is, am I right in my interpretation of the reg's ?

TIA

Peter

[Owain]

IANABCO. AIUI if you are having a large dormer fitted on the rear you are creating additional living space (in effect, an extension) and this additional space must be to current regs. If you were just installing Velux windows you would not (in this scenario) be creating additional space.

Owain

[Christian McArdle]

It is not being a loft conversion that invokes the regs. It is about it being a 3 storey building. Indeed, loft conversions actually have reduced regulation over normal 3 storey buildings, so you would do well to argue that it IS a loft conversion if you can convince them. That way you don't have to replace all your doors with fire doors, but just need to fit closers. The closers can be as simple as rising butt hinges. Glass panels can be replaced with fire resistant glass (although clear fire glass is expensive).

Given the increased space and subdivision of the room, I suspect that they are within their rights to demand that the protected stairwell is brought up to scratch.

Furthermore, the regulations with relation to fire are really quite sensible and you shouldn't be looking for ways round them.

Christian.

[peterd]

Thanks for you advice - will recommend to the builders that they fit rising butt hinges - this would seem the most sensible solution.

Thanks

Peter

[Robert Campbell]

Silly question, possibly - I have a mid-60s 3-storey townhouse, which is pretty much open-plan on the upper two floors, with an open stairwell. Would the building regs apply to an existing property? We bought it in mid-2004, and there was no mention of fitting closers or fire doors in the survey. Looked at a new-build 3-storey townhouse last year, and all the upper floors' doors were self-closers - made the place horribly claustrophobic...

[Christian McArdle]

You are never required to bring an existing building up to modern specifications unless the space is being extensively remodelled.

However, it can be sensible to do so. Open plan arrangements can look nice, but are a complete fire trap. If there is a fire on the stairs (much more likely with an open plan arrangement without self closing doors), modern arrangements mean that the top floor should remain habitable for a good 20 minutes, plenty enough time for you to be rescued through the compulsory escape window. With no door or fire resisting construction in the way, the top floor will be swamped in minutes, meaning you have the choice of burning/choking to death or jumping over 5 metres to serious injury or death.

The very least you should do is install a permenantly affixed deployable escape ladder that you can throw out of the window.

Christian.

[Robert Campbell]

Thanks for that info - it's made me reconsider the benefits (or otherwise) of the loft look! I'll have a chat to my gf's dad about some ideas - he's a retired fireman.

[Guy King]

The message from "Christian McArdle" contains these words:

Aldi still have some - £25 IIRC.