Extra earth for cooker?

[T i m]

Hi All,

A mate has just has his (ist floor) flat (that is going to be up for sale / rent soon) electrically inspected and failed because there was no (extra) earth wire between the CU and the cooker (or that's how he put it to me).

He asked me to help him add the 'wire' (earth bond?) pre re-inspection but I wasn't sure what that would involve.

Also he's reluctant to rip up the (new) floor so was talking about running it across the ceiling in some plastic trunking etc (no my way of doing things but ..)

Out of interest (and in case I do get dragged into it) what sort thing are we looking at please (where would the cable join at the CU end, what diameter would it be (it sounds like it could be say a 10m run?), where does it join at the cooker end etc) please?

All the best ..

T i m

[Will Dean]

There's no regulatory requirement to add additional bonding to a cooker (or anything else in a domestic kitchen), so it's impossible to answer a question about how one should do this.

You need to find out what exactly it's been failed on. It's entirely possible that whoever inspected it doesn't know the rules but just fancied that they'd like to see a bit more green and yellow voodoo looped around everything.

If there's no earth to the cooker at all, then it's likely that there's a serious problem with the wiring to the cooker (possibly either cable damage or an installation problem). He really needs to investigate this (urgently) rather than just add another earth cable.

Will

[gg1000]

It may not be the case, but this sounds a bit like a fishing exercise to me.

I would not be at all surprised to find that in this Brave New Post-Part-P World there are companies offering cheap (or even free) electical checks with the idea that they can then persuade the victim^W customer to pay over the odds for some simple job that they have discovered needs doing - even if it isn't really required.

Did the company doing the test do it for some sort of "special price"?

Did they offer to put things right themselves, and if so for how much?

[Christian McArdle]

What extra earth?

You'll need to find exactly what it has failed on. The only "extra" earths required in domestic properties are supplementary and main equipotential bonding. Supplementary bonding is only required in bathrooms, so it isn't that. Main equipotential bonding is required to the main incoming services, if they're made of metal, or the internal services of the house if they're made of metal. (If both are metal, then only one bond is still required).

The only other possibility I can think if is that the earth loop impedence test failed for the cooker, and an additional earth was specified to bring it down, although I think this would be a bit of a bodge.

Christian.

[Will Dean]

Yes, I considered this too, but I couldn't think of a realistic situation in which high Zs for the cooker didn't really indicate something more important than 'more earth copper required on this circuit'.

For example, it *could* be a warning of 'nail hammered through middle of cooker cable'.

I suspect that Chinese Whispers is the biggest problem here at the moment.

Will

[T i m]

Hi all and thanks for the suggestions / questions so far. In light of the form of the replies I can see why the question may have seem vague etc.

I spoke to my 'mate' (he's just someone I have been friendly with for many years now rather than a mate as such) again today and he said the 'guy' who did the test did actually suggest what was needed and why but he didn't actually take it in (as *he* wasn't going to be doing the job himself anyway) .. but the info could be had with a phonecall.

However I was given some extra info that may support the 'problem' though as the 'tester' (apparently) also mentioned the earth on the cooker socket was 'iffy' but that could be taken from an adjacent double socket ..?

I also happened to speak to an electrician this morning (in the car spares shop whilst getting bits for Mums boiler ) and he couldn't see any specific requirement either?

My mate added this work would need to be done if the place was to be rented but not if it was sold (I would have thought it would apply to both ..?)

Not sure if any of that helps?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I'm not sure if I want to get involved now in any case ... ;-(

>

[Will Dean]

This sounds very dodgy. If there's a problem with the cable supplying the cooker, it needs investigating.

I would encourage him to get it sorted-out properly, perhaps not involving a chain of 'tradespeople' who are coincidentally the brothers-in-law of mates who work down the local laundrette.

Will

[Christian McArdle]

OK, if this is the case, then the cooker supply circuit sounds knackered. I'd replace the entire cable run. If the earth is gone, then there is no reason to trust the circuit conductors, either.

Christian.

[T i m]

Will / Christian,

Thanks again for your thoughts ..

This mate is one of those who does things on the fly without full consideration .. not a 'risk taker' as such but likes to move much quicker than I am generally comfortable with (like "let's go round there now and we can sort it" .. no tools, no idea of the rules etc etc)).

I asked why can't he couldn't run 'whatever, properly' and he said "because I've just had a new laminate floor put down" (hence his idea of running the extra earth cable over the celieng in conduit?). ;-(

I think I'll just 'be busy' for a while .. ;-)

All the best and thanks for the advice guys ..

T i m

[Christian McArdle]

I'm just saying that if you run anything back to the consumer unit, make it

6mm+ T&E, not a single earth.

Christian.

[Lobster]

Presumably because as a landlord you'd be liable if your tenant electrocuted themselves, whereas it would (presumably, IANAL) be a case of caveat emptor if a future owner did the same thing?

David

[Ed Sirett]

Currently to sell a place the purchaser may choose to have the electrical installation surveyed. They do not usually choose to do so unless perhaps there is a strong possibility that it will yield a bargaining point for them.

For shorthold rented accomodation the requirement is that the electrical installation is 'safe'. Lettings Agencies vary in how they manage this requirement. The strictest (Universities' letting offices) and the most upmarket simply insisting on the a 'Periodic Test & Inspection' report.

[<me9]

Is the CU the consumer unit or the connection unit for the cooker?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd first do a physical inspection of the cooker outlet since a broken or loose earth wire at the actual terminal isn't unknown. I'd next check the CU for the same thing at the other end. IMHO, this is rather more common than cable damage.

[Christian McArdle]

Indeed, but I would have expected a full electrical inspection to have done this. It could have been a cheapie, plug things in, but don't disassemble anything type inspection, though.

Christian.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Really? Wouldn't that come more under repairing? I'd expect - but don't really know - that it would all be done with just pluggy in things.

Not had one done, but the old LEB inspection of a new installation consisted of physically looking inside a socket and light switch but testing the whole lot with megger, etc.

[T i m]

I *believe* he was referring to the consumer unit (but with him you never know ..) ;-(

He's one of these guys that says "I could do it myself but ..." (but only if it is *very* easy and just clips in or can get a mug to do it for a drink .. ) ;-)

I'm busying myself rigging mums water buts up to her main rainwater downpipe (oh, and digging the garden clear, buying, lugging about and laying two 600mm sq slabs, buying the components, cutting the downpipe, drilling the holes in the buts ... ) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m