Evil gate valve claims another victim...

Had a call from a friend earlier with his tale of woe. He had turned off his hot water using the tap feeding the base of the cylinder so that he could change a tap washer in the kitchen. Turned it back on again when done, and no hot water anywhere...
So I asked if the tap he turned off had a wheel style head on it - probably painted red. Sure enough it did.
So I popped round and explained the gate valve party trick to him (i.e. chances are it won't turn off properly, and even if it does, half the time it won't turn on ever again), and swapped it for a full bore leaver valve.
It amazes me they still sell the things!
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On 24/09/2016 20:49, John Rumm wrote:

Most systems I have come across don't have any means to drain the header tank to help replacing the gate valve. Was it a case of syphoning water out of the header tank or an otherwise easy job?
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On 24/09/2016 23:45, Fredxxx wrote:

I did not bother draining - I have a couple of conical rubber bungs[1]
We poked one into the outlet of the cold cistern, and the other into the vent pipe from the cylinder over the cistern. That meant we only lost a few feet of pipe's worth of water.
[1] Like:
https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/Regin-Radiator-Valve-Change-Kit-Regr05/p/581501
You can either poke the end in a pipe, or the inside of the bungs are hollow, with a flange at the top, so they can be forced over the end of a pipe as well.
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On 25/09/2016 04:02, John Rumm wrote:

I should add, TS do a pair of bungs at half the price, and in an emergency, a couple or carrots[1] will do the trick!
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/d10/Plumbers+Tools/sd210/Radiator+Valve+Change+Kit/p31768
[1] Other root vegetables might also work.
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 04:09:07 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Do you know the bread-dough trick?
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On 25/09/2016 12:32, Jimbo's lappy wrote:

I tend to include that in the catalogue of "how to solder a dripping pipe" collection - i.e. it will stem a small low volume trickle long enough to solder, but then flush through the pipe when water pressure is re-applied. Not sure how well it would work trying to stuff it into a pipe outlet under water in a cistern?
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On 25/09/2016 04:09, John Rumm wrote:

Organic carrots are fine. That's what I used.
Organic ones are much harder than ones dosed with nitrogen, so don't break off and leave an awkward bit stuck at the bottom of the cold tank,
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John Rumm formulated on Sunday :

I don't understand what the tear drop shaped item does, on the right - could you explain please?
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 12:54:44 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

p/581501

They are both the same, but one is standing on end.
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Bob Eager wrote on 25/09/2016 :

Thanks!
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On 25/09/2016 15:12, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Yup four items in the kit - two bungs, a jubilee clip and a rad key. Don't think I have ever needed the jubilee clip!
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On 25/09/2016 04:02, John Rumm wrote:

How does that work for changing radiator valves, which is what it is advertised as being for?
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On 26-Sep-16 10:10 AM, Andrew May wrote:

I was wondering that. Surely, most systems are pressurised these days?
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On 26/09/2016 10:10, Andrew May wrote:

Same way really - poke one in the outlet of the CH header, and the other into the CH primary vent.
You then turn off the both rad valves, and crack the nut on the valve union to the rad to allow the rad to be drained. Then you undo the valve connection to the pipe. Since you have no route for air or water to get into the system you have a hydraulic "lock" which will prevent much if any water coming out of the now open rad tail.
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On 26-Sep-16 6:44 PM, John Rumm wrote:

On a pressurised system, it can't be enough just to depressurise it, can it?
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On 26/09/2016 20:22, GB wrote:

So long as the rads are all well bled, then yes - once de-pressurised its no different to a vented system with the vent and F&E pipe closed off.
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On 2016-09-25, John Rumm wrote:

Looks too simple to work! ;-)
How do those work for changing radiator valves? It seems to me you're still going to spray water between unscrewing the old valve & getting the bung in, & again between removing the bung & screwing the new valve together.
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On 30/09/2016 10:06, Adam Funk wrote:

They are not primarily intended to be used on the rad tails themselves. They are used in vented CH systems to block of the Feed & Expansion connection to/from the CH header tank, and also the CH vent pipe over the tank. Once that is done, you have created an air lock that makes it harder for water to escape.
So say you wanted to change a rad valve, you would stick the plugs into the expansion tank/vent pipe, and then turn off both rad taps. Now drain just that rad. Uncouple the valve you want to change from the rad, and now you can remove it from the pipe. You will get a small amount of spillage - but the whole system will not be able to drain out of the open pipe, because its sealed and air can not enter elsewhere to let the water out.
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On 2016-09-30, John Rumm wrote:

Doh. Got it.
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On 04/10/16 10:07, Adam Funk wrote:

Well that (sealing your cold water circuit) is of course OK as far as it goes...until your fsking wife flushes a loo, and opens a tap, and suddenly there is an open valve allowing air into the whole hot AND cold water system and dumping the entire contents of the pressurized hot water tank on your feet.
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