EUSSR wants to stop holiday snaps without permission.

Jul 05, 2015 20 Replies

Yet more madness from Brussels. "Freedom od Panorama." Clause 46 (formerly the subject of Amendment 421 in committee) of the Julia Reda report on Copyright issues involves the right to publish pictures of public buildings and artworks such as sculptures permanently installed in p ublic places.



  1. Considers that the commercial use of photographs, video footage or oth er images of works which are permanently located in physical public places should always be subject to prior authorisation from the authors or any pro xy acting for them; In some countries such publications require a permission from the architect or rights holder of the public artwork, while the majority of EU member st ates enjoys the so-called Freedom of Panorama, which allows anyone to publi sh photographs, documentary films and other works depicting public places w ithout restriction. It was anticipated that Freedom of Panorama would become universal across E urope. The proposal adopted in committee would, should it become law, abolish the existing comprehensive Freedom of Panorama laws in a majority of EU Member States. The draft report pointed out that the need to acquire a licence for such ev eryday activities as sharing one's holiday pictures on social media was ana chronistic and that Freedom of Panorama should become a rule in the entire European Union. In the vote the legal affairs committee turned this proposal on its head, b y adopting the most restrictive amendment on the question of Freedom of Pan orama. As a consequence of this absurd proposal, restricting the Freedom of Panora ma in Europe restricted to non-commercial use only would see many internet sites having to comb through their content to expunge anything which offend ed this new proposal. Wikipedia, for example, would have to expend huge res ources to remove anything which did not comply. This would involve many tens of thousands of images of public places in Eur ope. It might be thought that a restriction of Freedom of Panorama for commercia l use may only prove a problem for companies seeking to make money by selli ng photographs. In practice, the distinction between commercial and non-com mercial is much more complicated. If you upload a holiday picture to Facebook, an individual does not make an y profit from that. By agreeing, however, to the terms of service of Facebook, which state

  • that you are giving permission to Facebook to use your picture co mmercially (Section 9.1 of Facebook's Terms of Service), and
  • that you have cleared all the necessary rights in order to do so (5.1 of Facebook's Terms of Service) In effect, if the commercial use of photographs depicting a public building requires a licence from the architect or other creator, it may then be you r responsibility to find out
  • whether the building is still protected by copyright (that is whe ther the architect died more than 70 years ago) and
  • who actually owns the rights today At that point one would have to conclude a licence agreement with the right s holder or responsible collecting society that explicitly allows the comme rcial use of the picture by Facebook before you can legally upload your hol iday pictures to Facebook. The same applies for any other social network and/or commercial image hosti ng sites that typically draft their terms of service in a way that protects them from liability. A restriction to Freedom of Panorama to non-commercial use would therefore bring millions of Europeans into conflict with copyright law over their per fectly harmless, everyday online usage. In some respects, violating copyrig ht is not only a matter of civil law but also of criminal law. Clearly this is a completely absurd and impractical proposal: indeed it ma y be wholly unenforceable in practice, which is another reason not to pass it. UKIP will oppose Paragraph 46 of the Reda Report now before the Europea n Parliament. This is typical incompetent, ill-thought out and unnecessary legislation. I t will destroy an explicit British freedom guaranteed in our copyright legi slation for over 100 years. Until now, everyone in Britain has been free to stand in a public place and take photographs of any monument or building t hey chose. The only sure-fire way to stop the EU imposing silly laws upon us is to 'Sa y No' to the EU at every turn.

Do you not think that the people who suggested this will be hoping that it gets thrown out at the next round and probably universally by memeber states in any case. its probably been done to kick mud in the legal depts face.

Its so stupid, only a moron would countenance it.

On the other hand of course, if you went into a museum and were asked not to take photos without permission that is another argument, but if you can stand on a public street and take the picture then who the heck cares.time was that you had to show a loss first, but nowadays, it seems everything is assumed to have commercial value. Brian

You're right. It would be. IF it said what Harry suggested it said.

Of course, only a moron would have not noticed the words "commercial use" in there in the first place. The alternative is that Harry DID notice the words, but decided to disingenuously spin professional commercial photography into "holiday snaps".

Which is worse? Being a moron, or being a liar?

...

wiki(p|m)edia are concerned that the definition of commercial/non-commercial is muddy enough that they could be forced to delete images...

The definition of commercial and non-commercial is straightforward.

The problem for Wiki(p|m)edia is that they don't know which images are which, because all they have is the images.

There was an article in the Times in which it was pointed out that these restrictions would be the death of location shooting for films.

Which, of course, is complete bollocks, because film shoots already require all sorts of permissions and liaison with the local authorities - not least because of the vast amount of disruption they cause.

B'sides, it's not as if the suggested restrictions would be much of a change in many countries. Strangely, people seem to make films in France already.

formatting link

You are joking? Film makers already pay through the nose for the rights to shoot in a public area.

The klod writing was saying that in addition to all that, they'd have to get permission from the owner of any building within the shot, even if it couldn't be identified. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but it's clear the proposal (of the EU) is bollocks.

So you don't know if the claims made about the proposal are true, but the proposal is definitely bollocks.

Hmm. I wonder if that conclusion is more related to the perceived source than anything else?

It really doesn't take very much digging to find out the reality. The European Parliament asked the one and only "Pirate Party" (anti-copyright single-issue) MEP to produce a report on copyright law.

Well, I wonder which way THAT was ever going to go?

Strangely, the report turned out to be a bit half-arsed and one-sided. Everything should be copyright free, because... well, just because.

So museums and other copyright owners leant on slightly less monomaniacal MEPs to put in a bunch of suggested amendments.

Then the rabidly-anti-anything-to-do-with-anything-European-sod-the-facts media got in on it... And it all went even more out of proportion.

formatting link

Very true - wish I had a quid for every single scare story the likes of the Mail published which never saw the light of day. Even if they reported a draft proposal correctly, which is doubtful.

Oh - and love harry's continual use of EUSSR. Does he really think the conditions the EU want to impose on Greece are anything even vaguely to do with socialism?

I'll give him a hint. They want Greece to privatize pretty well all remaining state owned industries or services, etc. Very socialist, that.

Rather like that retarded "Cookie Law" that means half the bloody sites I visit for the first time bangs up some d*****ad bollocks about accepting cookies that I have to waste time clicking.

Attacking the messenger again, I see.

Any proposal to remove the free-panorama thingy (whatever it was called) is clearly bollocks.

Even if there isn't actually such a proposal...?

Then there wouldn't be "any proposal", then, would there.

I thought the usual way of introducing such amendments was by means of a suitable quantity of cash?

No more than the conditions imposed on Soviet satellite 'nations' had anything to do with socialism, no.

First time I have heard that particular line actually.

And surely Saint Tony of Blair did lots of privatising, and he called himself a socialist.

And meanwhile the number of cookies in me cache doubles every week, and the number of sites that have no need of them, but wont work without them, trebles every month

Seems like you've finally got it. Anyone or any regime can *call* themselves socialist. But not the same thing as following the principles.

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required