Electrical work for business

[Sparks]

Greetings!

I am not a qualified electrician, if I was to undertake simple electrical work for a business, as long as it is done correctly, would there be a problem with this?

Thanks!

Sparks...

[SantaUK]

IANAL - but in my work place I won't even change a plug. If the proverbial hits the fan and starts a fire etc etc - who are they going to blame? I wouldn't recommend it without insurances etc.

[Sparks]

This was for the removal of some cable connecting some A/C units that are getting removed, so there is very little chance of the proverbial hitting the fan, as there will be less to go wrong!

Just wondered about the legality of doing it!

Sparks...

[Andrew Gabriel]

It's a question of competency. The workplace employer has a duty to ensure only competent people work on the installation. There is no definition of competency, so you need to be sure you can defend your competency level in court (or more strictly, the workplace employer does). Obviously, you would be very well advised to make sure you have appropriate professional indemnity insurance cover.

The employer I was working for when PAT testing and some other legislation came in during the early 1990's decided they would only emply NICEIC staff. After a couple of years of poor quality work from all the NICEIC contractors, we changed the rules to require contractors to bring relevant C&G qualifications along on their first day on site. Most of the NICEIC companies could not supply suitably qualified staff and we ended up using small independant contractors, and got much higher quality work.

So it's really down the workplace employer to decide. There's no legislation requiring particular qualifications or membership in order to undertake electrical work for a business.

[PoP]

The only real requirement is that any work undertaken is compliant with the 16th edition wiring regulations - and even that is advisory at present - a sparky can decide to do something different and if he can justify it then he's not breaking any laws.

Main issue is whether you could face a judge in a courtroom and defend what you've done. The prosecuting solicitor will be thumbing thru the

16th edition wiring regs as he is grilling you on the stand, so you'd better have applied the regs.

Later this year (it was supposed to be April but that seems to be slipping badly) it will become necessary to produce inspection certificates for many electrical installation jobs, and many time served electricians won't be able to do that as they won't have C&G2391.

PoP

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[Lobster]

I'm curious - do most of the folk in this NG who work as handymen etc carry indemnity and/or public liability insurance? AFAIK most don't have formal qualifications as plumbers or sparkies etc; doesn't that make insurance companies run a mile?

David

[Andrew Gabriel]

Only for domestic work, as proposed.

Anyone can fill in a certificate. It is up the the person using the certificate if they decide to accept it or not. (And for domestic work, being suitably qualified isn't the proposed requirement.)

[PoP]

I have £1M PII, and wouldn't leave home without it. I am considering upping it to £2M - reason being that housing associations and letting agents won't usually let you on site without that amount of cover.

The insurance was actually more straightforward than I imagined. Fill in a form and it's yours. Bit like applying for a motor policy really.

I thought I would have difficulty with having not traded as a handyman previously, nor as an active skilled trades person, but the question I answered quite truthfully was "how long have you been practicing these skills?". I could very honestly say 30+ years, because I'd been DIYing since before I left school.

I've also got an OND Engineering, and when I took that sandwich course (30 years ago) they kindly taught me useful things like plumbing. Now okay, pushfit wasn't around in those day - but I still do all my plumbing in compression or solder fittings (people say that pushfit is really good, but I haven't got my confidence with it yet).

I am a qualified and experienced electronics engineer so can be relied upon to know which end of a screwdriver goes in the screw head.

However, all that said, I know my limits. If someone says "full house rewire" my reply is "get an electrician". If it's "new central heating system" my reply is "I know a man that can". And so on.

Basically I'll take on any job which a reasonably competent DIY person could do, but if it demands a skilled tradesman then that's not my domain. I guess the rule of thumb I use is if it is described in the Readers Digest DIY manual then I'm capable of doing it.

I'm also conscious of the regulations - so although I've plumbed in and commissioned a CH system in days gone by there is no way I would take such a job on - I'm not CORGI registered and wouldn't pretend to be. With me you get what it says on the box.

PoP

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[Sparks]

Could I be so rude to ask how much that sort of cover is per year!?

Sparks...

[Chris Oates]

proffesional indemnity insurance

[Dave Plowman]

I get 'free' cover as part of my union (BECTU) membership, although I'm freelance. Would cost about as much as the subscription to do it privately. Perhaps other trade organisations do the same - although I realise there might be more claims in the 'building' trade than mine.

[PoP]

Professional Indemnity Insurance.

I paid £277 - as I found out afterwards £45 was the arrangement fee to the insurance agent (b'std). ;)

Insurer is Fortis.

PoP

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[dg]

If you are sure that you can do the work properly, then there is no problem

dg

[Steve Dawson]

Hear, Hear as always common sense from Andrew. The only person who has to be qualified in an ECA or NICEIC firm is the qualifying manager.

Steve Dawson

Fox Electrival Services Ltd ECA registered and C & G qualified!!

[Andrew]

In article , Chris Oates writes

Sometimes known as professional indemnity insurance :-), but doesn't just cover professionals, who arguably should not need it.

[PoP]

Point taken, but if you have a Ltd company then you don't have any choice AFAIK.

Mind you, it looks as though any small-time operator of a Ltd company could be in for trouble in the forthcoming budget. Brown announced in his recent pre-budget speech that he is going to bring in measures to ensure that owners of incorporated companies will be paying the right amount of tax. An IR36 pre-release if ever I heard it!

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't guaranteed to reach me.

[Andrew]

In article , PoP writes

I think it is officially IR591, but people I work with say that will less of a burden on those shafted by IR35, but will clobber people who are taking dividends but aren't liable to IR35. I shall give my accountant a buzz and check it out.

[PoP]

I hope he's a bit more switched on than my accountant was originally. When IR35 appeared he said "you're caught!". He used the rule "IT Consultant = IR35'd".

I explained some facts of real life to him and he was persuaded that maybe I was right - I've never signed up for IR35 - if they want to take me on (based upon past IT contracts) they will have a fight on their hands. And as PCG, QDOS and others have subsequently shown, IR35 is/was a voluntary tax.

I have a feeling that IR591 will not be so flimsy. We'll have to see what Gay Gordon says in early April.

PoP

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