Electric 22mm pipe soldering tool - any good?

[Phil Addison]

I have to solder some dry 22mm copper pipe under the floorboards. Normally I would lift a board and use my trysty gas torch but moving furniture, lifting carpet etc is a major problem in this room and I do have access to a crawl space beneath. So it occurs to me I can do the job from below without the furniture hassle but I don't fancy risking setting fire to the joists/floorboards especially while I am ensconced in a low crawlspace.

So the question is, will an electric soldering gun be any good? Anyone tried them?

A search throws up the Antex Pipemaster which their ads and video claims will do the trick

are 2 versions "DIY" 120 Watts (yellow) at £48 (from CPC) Warmup 4 mins Usage time (time to complete the joint presumably?)

15mm 1st joint 20-30 secs, 2nd joint 10 secs 22mm 1st joint 30-40 secs, 2nd joint 10 secs 22mm joint.

and "PRO" 220 Watts (black) at £131 (from Antex) Warmup 2 mins

1st joint 20 secs, 2nd joint 10 secs (diameter not stated).

both have extra heads availlable for 8-22mm but only have 15mm head supplied, 22mm £11 extra.

Phil

[Andrew Mawson]

risking

ensconced

Anyone

> There are 2 versions

I'm led to believe that they do work, if a bit slowly and they are spendy. But for a one off job like that, I'd clear away any dust and debris and then spray the area liberally with water from a squeezy spray bottle, and put baco foil behind pipes as you solder them to protect the wood. Keep the spray bottle to hand in case of excessive excitement !

AWEM

[Ron Lowe]

Might this not be a job for Hep2o or similar push-fit?

Difficult access, no need for hot work, etc?

[Dave Liquorice]

Spendy?

Excessive debris I'd remove but I'd use one of the proper protective mats behind the pipe rather than foil, they are really very good at stopping the heat getting at things.

Most problems with a blow lamp comes from when it is put down still burning after the joint has been made and the user is still concentrating on the joint not where the flame or its heat is going...

[Nightjar]

I have tried one. It was very slow on 15mm and on 22mm I gave up and got the blowtorch out. I suggest vacuuming well, to remove cobwebs and dust that might catch fire, wetting the surrounding area down well and using a heat shield cloth behind the joint. It might also be a good idea to take a fire extinguisher in with you, just in case.

Colin Bignell

[Phil Addison]

>

No, these pipes are already there and they need to be copper - don't ask! The plastic pipe clips have given way* and let the long piperun sag, and this I believe may, over the years, have fractured some of the capiliary joints. My plan is to replace the crappy plastic clips with decent saddle clamps that can take the weight, then reflow the soldered joints

*said clips are the springy plastic ones that you click the pipe into, and are clearly not suitable for inverted use. They are screwed to the bottom of the joists so the weight of the pipe has just pulled it out of them.

[Phil Addison]

Indeed... been there!!

[Phil Addison]

Do you know if that was the 120W or 220W version?

I hadn't thought of wetting the surrounds and vacuuming, those are good ideas thanks, though I have previously cleared all the loose rubble and detritus off the ground. A fire extinguisher sounds a good plan too.

To give you a better idea the crawlspace is only 24" from ground to underside of floorboards and my copper pipe is running under the joists (perpendicular to them), so I'll be working laying pretty much on my back. I was concerned about the flame being only 4" to 6" immediately below the wooden floor (not to mention 12-18" from my nose!) but I guess if I can get the wood nice and wet and tack a heat blanket under the boards I might get away with it! I think I will try to pin a piece of steel sheet to the boards too as a heat deflector.

Phil

[Ghostrecon]

I did this when I was 14 (30 something years ago) - My dad was not very good in confined spaces so he taught me how to use endfeed fittings in 22 and 15m pipe (well probablty 1/2 and 3/4 then) sounds almost identical if not slighly more cramped conditions (but i was a but smaller then lol) Used a staple gun to tack a heatproof mat behind each joint and had a breize block with a groove to put the torch down on (torch was 15ft gas tube to propane bottle type) no excitedment though lol .

[fred]

I needed to make a lot of soldered joints under floors and in tight places many years ago when these things were first launched (and cheap - C30quid). I think the originals had 100W elements per leg so prob closer to the pro version that you mention. Despite being a competent electronic solderer, I found them to be worse than useless, being slow with unreliable heat transfer and after using them for just a few joints I changed over to a simple gas canister blowlamp and a fibreglass heatmat that I still use today.

The heatmat fits easily behind any joint that is more than 1/2" from a joist and protects perfectly well. The blowlamp provides even heat, where you want it, and cools rapidly once the gas is turned off (unlike the electric iron).

In summary, I feel safer using the blowlamp and am sure I can make joints more rapidly and more reliably with it. 4-6" clearance to joists is luxury, no mat reqd ;-)

[Roger Mills]

What are the pipes carrying, and why do they *need* to be copper? [I know you said don't ask!]

You said they were 'dry'. Do you mean dry as in dry joint - with failed solder, or dry with no water in - perhaps because they're gas pipes?

If they *do* have water in, you'll have a hell of a job to re-solder without dismantling. Far better to chop out the bits with the failed joints and join in some new bits - using copper push-fit fittings. Then there's no risk starting a fire.

[Ron Lowe]

>>>>> There are 2 versions

Well, whatever.

But I think you may be dismissing push-fit fittings a bit too readily.

They work on copper pipe too.

[Phil Addison]

Hmmm, I rather thought that might be the case.

No not to joists, but to the floorboards immediately above.

But this all giving me confidence to stay with my blow-torch.

[Phil Addison]

Good idea, I've got one of those.

Another good idea, I think a thermalite block will be easier to handle down there.

[Windmill]

I've used an Antex one bought many years ago (not to hand and can't remember the wattage) and it was fine on the old lead solder joints, very handy for work in tightly confined spaces, but failed on lead-free (maybe that was partly because of residual water in the pipe though).

For lead-free, you can get asbestos protective matting from places like B&Q, put the lid of a steak pie tin behind the pipe to deflect/reflect the flame onto the back of the pipe, with the matting positioned as seems best, dampen the wood first of all, and use a propane torch.

Still difficult not to leave a few scorch marks though.

The matting might not actually be asbestos nowadays.

[Phil Addison]

Well, they are copper and they are already there, and just want the capillaries reflowed (probably).

I don't think copper push-fit fittings is compatible with gas? And isn't compression prohibited where its inaccessible?

Phil

[Phil Addison]

>>>

No not dismissing it, I've used loads of Hep2O on my central heating and cold water, love it, but not allowed in this application. See reply to Roger.

Yep, thats very handy - cu to cu, cu to hep, hep to hep.

Phil

[YAPH]

Indeed (though it obviously *is* accessible if you're accessing it to deal with - what a gas leak under the floor? Nasty.)

Also acid flux is a no-no for gas - heat-activated only, please.

Water spray and fibreglass solder mat and take care!

[Nightjar]

It was about 25 years ago and I don't now recall whether there was even a choice. I bought it at a plumber's merchant, so I would expect it to have been intended for professional use.

Don't use CO2 if the space is restricted or it might extinguish you too.

I tried an experiment with a heat blanket when I first got one. I played the blowlamp on it until the surface glowed red. I then felt the other side, which was too hot to hold, but not too hot to touch. That is a surprising accurate indication of a temperature of around 60C.

Colin Bignell

[GB]

Nightjar