Drilling problems into concrete

IMHO clutch only "needed" when using core drills to cut large holes for e.g. WC wastes, extractor fans holes etc.

My cheapo but heavy SDS doesn't have a clutch and I've not had any probs without...

Cheers JimK

Often incorrectly claimed to be special drill system or similar[1], it was originally the German phrase: "Steck - Dreh - Sitz" translating to Insert, Twist, Lock or similar.

By hitting the bit *much* harder while turning it.

I would not even consider buying one without a safety clutch. May cost a few quid more but it pays for itself the first time you _don't_ need to go to A&E :-)

..using a mechanism that has NOTHING to do with SDS bit locking whatsoever...

So what you have is that SDS is a bit lock mechanism,m. But what people MEAN by 'SDS drill' is one that has an impact mechanism different that which is found in a normal 'non SDS' hammer drill that simply use something like a cam system to judder the bit forwards and backwards. The 'SDS 'has an impact system that literally hits the back of the shaft..

The fact that these two completely different and unrelated mechanisms both appeared at the same time on the later generation of drills, is what has completely confused the whole arena.

I am not sure - do wish Lidl would be a bit more comprehensive in their descriptions. I *think* the one I bought last year (slightly different model) has a clutch but I'd have to double-check to be sure.

Other than it was designed to enable enough linear free movement of the bit for the hammer action to do its stuff.

You can actually get some SDS bits that can't be used with hammer action

- they will lock in the chuck but don't have the elongated flutes to allow the bit to move back toward the piston.

Rod wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net:

It is annoying

Nearest LIDL is not too far so I might go down there tomorrw to see if its in stock and see if there are any clues on the box.

spamlet has brought this to us :

A very much harder impact on the tip of the bit. In the old days, before SDS, when hammer drills appeared - If the hammer drill would not make any headway in the hole, you would fall back onto a Rawldrill. A hard triangular drill bit, in a holder which you hit repeatedly with a hammer, turning slightly between each strike. They would drill through anything, but it was hard work and took time. The SDS takes a similar approach, a very hard blow on the tip of the bit combined with comparatively slow rotation.

A hammer drill combines fast rotation with a much lighter blow on the drill bit. Fine for material which is not so hard.

mo laid this down on his screen :

There are no clues on the box.

Harry Bloomfield wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk:

Have you got one?

Anything in the manual?

I am guessing they would have mentioned it if it was a feature

Anyone seen one going for under £50 with the clutch and chisel feature?

on 15/05/2010, mo supposed :

Yes

Nothing I was able to find.

It has some useful things I have not seen before on any drills, as in a power indicator and some system to detect when the motor brushes need to be replaced.

Not necessarily. The cheapy I bought from Aldi 5 years ago didn't mention it had a clutch, I only found out it did when it jammed. This one improves on that by being to position lock the chisel, and has variable speed forward and reverse.

I'm not convinced the clutch is really that essential. I have had many drills grab in the past and a firm grip stalls them long enough to release the trigger. These really are two handed tools, so even less chance of your trigger arm being damaged.

Thanks for clearing that up chums. It did seem at first like just another gimmick to make us buy more drill bits - especially after the click stop keyless chucks came in: they should have made more of the hammer. Mind you, now, from our earlier thread we have the additional confusion of the 'impact driver' now being a power tool too!

Things used to be so much simpler... ;-)

Another question arises though (in my thinking about those very hard but rather thin panels in my garage): is an SDS going to run the risk of cracking concrete rather than drilling it? Why do there seem to be no thin diamond drill bits for these hard but delicate jobs?

Cheers, S

on 15/05/2010, spamlet supposed :

You would need to be very gentle with an SDS on a panel garage.

bolt holes then!

That's my experience with a 2kg bosch-pro sds - using it with the 3- jaw chuck and largish hole-cutter in timber. With a firm grip, absorbing the forces of stalling the drill really wasn't a big deal.

I now have a DeWalt high-torque drill for large drillings in timber, and that's another beast altogether. A much firmer grip, more caution, and being ready to release the trigger very quickly is necessary - it'll have a good go at spinning me round otherwise.

go on - do tell :>)))

JimK

You can get mortar raking bits for angle grinders that can be used like a short drill bit. Theyre abrasive coated, TC IIRC, so one ought to do the job if you take care not to let it wander sideways.

I've drilled asbestos panels using a no-hammer drill years ago, it was slow but did work. I've a feeling it was done with a twist drill, not a masonry bit.

NT

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember mo saying something like:

Keep your old drill for those times when you might need a bit more precision. Otoh, I use the SDS drill for most things and find the 'wobbly' chuck thing to be over-stated. Let's face it, if you really need some drilling precision you need a pillar drill.

Cheapness of construction for the Chinese factories. The bulky style means it's easier to use (and fit in) larger gears of cheaper material. The really properly heavy-duty drills use this style, but that's because they need the room for proper HD gearing. The cheap ones copied this style because it made sense for them and also made it look as if they were HD, where they are not.

No. As I said above - the reverse is true for consumer items. A proper HD drill/breaker is heavy and bulky (SDS Max), but decent makes of consumer SDS are normally half the weight of the cheapies.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher saying something like:

What same time? Must be thirty years between them.