Double glazing boo-boo

[Selwyn Froggitt]

Hi,

Bear with me on this one - I know I've made a mistake, I just want to know what I can do to resolve it...

I've recently tried to get quotes for a replacement front door. I ended up signing a contract with the first salesperson who came round (a very reasonable quote).

However, since signing the contract we decided on a different style of door (more expensive) and decided to see if we could get a cheaper quote elsewhere.

Unfortunately, the second salesman who came round (from ColdSeal) also got our signature on a contract for a front door. At the time the ColdSeal salesman knew that we had already signed a contract with another firm but made no indication that we'd have difficulty in cancelling.

I'm currently in the process of trying to cancel the ColdSeal contract. It's still within seven days of signing but I appreciate there are legal technicalities involved as the salespeople were invited round, etc.

In both cases a deposit has been paid (along with an additional £30 insurance with ColdSeal) but no surveyors have visited.

Does anyone have any experience as to how difficult will it be to cancel the ColdSeal contract?

What is my legal position regarding cancellation? Can I walk away from the contract losing no more than the deposit (and their 'insurance')?

Thanks.

[Michael Mcneil]

Forgive my lack of sympathy but you have not asked for any.

This is a diy group. Legal techs can be found at groups with the word "legal" in them.

[Selwyn Froggitt]

I am not asking for sympathy.

It is more likely that people in the DIY group would have experience of working with double glazing companies than the legal group would.

You may have noticed that I used the word 'legal' once, whereas the whole tone of the posting related to general home improvement.

[robert]

It would depend very much on the wording of the contract that you signed. Bottom line is that you lose your deposit, anything you can reason/negotiate should be seen as a bonus.

[Peter Parry]

About as easy as wrestling a hungry alligator in a bath of chicken soup. DG companies have a high proportion of customers trying to cancel the next day and are expert at making sure the don't.

Do you need a new back door by any chance?

[John]

That said the question you are asking is of a legal nature not a DIY (or home improvement) one!

John

[Andy Hall]

Did you pay the deposit by credit card, or use other financing for the purchase?

Check with your card company, but it's possible that you could have a cooling off period of a few days - it may depend on the circumstances.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Jan Wysocki]

A little observation would show that this NG is very tolerant of non-d-i-y. postings. If you don't want to know about topics such as using estate agents, contractors, buying dishwashers, then there are several options open to you. Your last sentence is a reasonable response. As for the rest, why wind up an OP who already feels in enough of a jam?

I've just taken a look at the advice on the CAB website and find it highly ambiguous.

On the one hand it says: "You do not have the right to cancel certain agreements where ..... you contacted the seller and asked them to visit you"

On the other, a little further in the same paragraph it says: "the right to cancel does include agreements for home repairs and improvements, such as fitting double glazing"

uk.legal might be useful, but I'd guess that a call to Trading Standards or CAB would give you a swift definitive answer. (CAB = Citizens Advice Bureau)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Effectively tyes. They can sue you for loss and damages, but the cost of doing it will be monumental, and the judge will throw it out anyway, because you do not get fined for breaching a contract, but for the consequential losses that result.

It wold be oimpossible to prove that they had suffered more than the loss of the salemans time, inless they had already made the units up and scheduled teh work...again very very hard to prove.

Tell them to sue and be damned. You will lose the deposit and hear no more about it.

[Stanley]

Please note I AM NOT A LAWYER AND HAVE NO QUALIFICATIONS IN THE AREA.

I successfully cancelled a kitchen that was sold me under pressure and they sent back my deposit.

1.Read your contract carefully and find the clause that gives probably both sides the option to cancel within X days and or the clause giving you the right to cancel within 7 day cooling off period.

2.Phone them and tell them that you intend to cancel. Note name of person you speak to.

1. Write to them refering to phone call and stating that you are excercising your contractual right to cancel the contract without penalty in accordance with clause(s) Y(Z). Tell them to send a refund of payments to your address. Quote their reference or contract No. If you can send them a photocopy of the contract paper it would do no harm but don't let this hold you up.

1. Send the letter to them recorded delivery.

2. Send a copy first class post in case the other gets lost. Use a different post box.

5a) Keep a copy.

1. Cross your fingers.

1. Don't delay, do it today.

This worked when I did it. Please note I AM NOT A LAWYER AND HAVE NO QUALIFICATIONS IN THE AREA.

[Alan]

Coldsteal? Getting it cancelled is best as if their rubbish gets installed you'll wish you had later. Still not happy with my Coldsteal doors installed a few years ago and their

10 year guarentee isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[Selwyn Froggitt]

Many thanks to all who have responded to me on this thread - there have been some excellent suggestions (and words of advice).

I've arranged cancellation of the order from ColdSeal - though not through their head office number, whose 'cancellation line' is permanently busy (why am I surprised?) but via a local office.

As a result I've got out of the contract but it's cost me both the deposit and the 'insurance'. Unfortunate - yes. But next time I'll read the small print...

Cheers.

[Stanley]

Sewyn, read your copy of the conditions very carefully. Look for a clause with "termination" or "cancellation" in to make sure they are not trying to pull the wool. If there is nothing, try having a word with the trading standards people or perhaps citizens' advice. They should be able to point you at someone who can come up with the rules about cooling off periods for contracts signed in the home. It's worth a couple of phonecalls and you might find you are entitled to a full refund. On the point of insurance, what are they now insuring? You cancelled it so soon after the order that they can't have put work in progress. I think they're being a bit naughty there. OR I may be talking rubbish. :) But it's worth a try.

Good luck!

By the way, I think these high pressure salesmen who have quotations that are valid for only one night giving you no time to shop round are unethical. That approach should not be legal. I've had several come up with that tale and it is very difficult to think straight. They start with a huge price and make their still inflated, if reduced, price look like a bargain. They are only after one thing ...... your signature. I am starting to learn, but it has taken me many years.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Just say No. If, after thinking on it for a day or more, you do decide to go ahead, they aren't going to refuse that same price. The thing is that most people, after thinking on it for a day or more, realise they're being ripped off, so the salesman knows his only real chance of ripping you off is there and then.

I had one of the nationals in to try selling me double glazing. There was no way I was going to sign up with them because I couldn't bear the thought of one penny of mine going to the slimeball in the suit, but it was a useful experience. All the unique features he pointed out to me on their windows were also on the windows from a local installer, for a third the price, and that actually included doing quite a bit more building work which the national wouldn't do.

[Andy Hall]

It would be very hard to make it illegal. Realistically, the only thing that can be done is to allow a cooling off period as with the Distance Selling Regulations.

It would be impractical to do anything about quotations and their validity.

Having limited validity to quotations is standard business practice, because it could be that the supplier has variable costs such as exchange rates. It is also used to encourage people to order sooner. I agree that intimidating people in their own home into signing up to something against their better judgment is bad practice, but it would be hard to differentiate that in law from perfectly reasonable quote validity. Where would the time line be set? 1 day, 7 days, 30 days?

Again it's hard to differentiate this. Furniture and clothing stores have done it for generations.

Of course. The important thing is to make it clear who is running the transaction and that there may not be a transaction. A sensible salesperson will respond to that and not try the short close tactics. The stupid one will try it on and lose the business.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Jim Warren]

My sister-in-law had one of these. Not only did he keep the pressure on to sign, he wouldn't take no for an answer and he wouldn't go. After nearly three hours she told him he could either walk out the door now, or she would call the police to remove him. Then he finally went. The next day she went to the high street showroom and demanded to see the manager, and told him that not only would she not buy their windows (which she actually liked!), but she would tell all her friends and workmates never to approach this firm for a quote (and she did just that). They may have upset a lot of people the same way, because what used to be their high street showroom is now a take-away sandwich bar.

When my sister-in-law told the crowd at work, one of them gave her contact information for a local installer. This man measured up, took details of types and sizes of openings etc, then sourced his own supplies and quoted just under a quarter of the slime ball's best offer. She accepted the quote. They were good quality windows too, not cheap and cheerful.

Jim

[Gin Smith]

Indeed - I have had 3 slimeballs in my house (and no not the occupants !!) this week. They arrive and conversation goes - these are the windows, this is where I want the openers, this is the style of doors I want, please measure my windows etc ......and give me a quote please and I will call you back within 10 days if I actually want to order. I also say that if their company provides me with a followup "courtesy call" then I will not order from them.

So far I have had to ask 2 of the three to leave. Why oh why don't they just listen, they could very well have had an order from me.......

Has anyone in the Hertfordshire recently had double glazing installed ? Can anyone recommend a local company ?

Thanks

Gin

[Dave Liquorice]

Name and shame. Though I guess it was Anglian as they are the only ones I can think of with a high street presence. Beware of Anglian, be very aware. They are run on a franchise basis with sub-contracted installers if you have a problem they'll send round their fulltime "trouble shooting" team(*) to sort it out but you'll get naff all support otherwise. Anglian head office are not interested in the slightest and will just pass any complaints down the chain to the franchise.

(*) Says a lot doesn't it if all the many Anglian franchises around the UK have to have fulltime trouble shooting teams...

[Richard Winstone]

Not THE Selwyn Froggitt?

" ... Froggitt is an excessively boisterous double-sized half-wit dogged by disaster, the type of person people cross roads to avoid, a deeply jovial man who has somehow deluded himself into thinking that he can fix anything but, rather, breaks everything."

Extract from:

[Rick Dipper]

You have a "cooling off" period if you sign in your house when they visit. so cancel, in writing, quickly.

Rick