Do I need to update my house's fuse box?

My house was built and wired in the 1980s and has an old-style fuse box. The old fuses have all been repeplaced with cirquit-breakers plugged into the fuse sockets. A couple of people, such as estate agents and electricians have raised eyebrows on seeing the box, telling me it should be changed for a modern RCD unit. Is this true? I've never had any problems with the existing setup, and I rarely get any inexplicable tripping of the circuit breakers. As far as I am aware, the old fuse boxes (even when fuses contained fuse wire) did what they were designed to do, with no problems.

My fuse box has circuit-breakers for: Upstairs ring main Downstairs ring main Upstairs light circuit Downstairs lighting circuit Electric shower circuit External security lights circuit

Obviously, I'd like to avoid the expense of updating it if I'm not under any legal obligation to change anything. Is there really a significant increase in electrical safety with the modern RCD units?

What about if I rent the house to tenants? Will it then need to comply with the latest electrical regulation specs?

THanks for some help.

Jim

Reply to
Jim x321x
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then no, in most cases

no

you're not

There are 20 something deaths from shock a year, mostly due to people doing idiotic things. RCDs reduce the risk. This is a long way down the list of Risky Things in Life, so is the oposite of a priority.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

There is no legal requirement to change it.

They did what they were supposed to - and will still do so. The main thing your current setup lacks is RCD protection.

RCDs represent a significant improvement in safety. Especially if you ever use electrical tools / appliances outside. The lack of RCD protection would also make adding or extending your existing installation in a compliant way more difficult, should you need to do so.

(some will argue that the chances of being killed by an electric shock in the home in the UK is vanishingly small, and indeed they are correct. However that misses the significant number of non fatal injuries per year (>200K hospital admissions), the vast majority of which would have been prevented by a working RCD).

As long as its basically sound, then not necessarily. Many landlords would take the view that replacing rewireable fuses is worth doing since it removes the ability for tenants to abuse them, and possibly prevents some call outs to the landlord / maintainer because they can't work out how to replace a blown fuse.

Reply to
John Rumm

Not answering your question, but adding one of my own as I have a similar situation in my mother's house. She has an old fuse box with wired fuses. Is it possible to get what I think are called RCBO's, (i.e. a combination of overload cut-out, MCB, with a residual current device, RCD), that plug into the slots currently occupied by the wire fuse holders, or does that require a whole new consumer unit?

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Plug-in MCBs are possible because they only require the same two contacts (live in and out) that the old fuses used, but an RCBO requires additional contacts (neutral in and out and an earth) so not feasible as a plug-in replacement.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Which makes me ask another question ... Why does an RCBO require a functional earth, when an RCD doesn't?

Reply to
Andy Burns

There can be issues with doing this. Certain designs have gaps between the MCBs and the cover which would fail modern ingress protection rating agains t poking things in. Also the plug-in MCBs sometimes have a lower breaking c apacity than 'conventional' MCBs.

For rental property electrics have to be 'safe' (and in Scotland from later this year, have an EICR - electrical condition report).

Given the age and current circuit arrangements it's likely that replacing t he CU would be a fairly straightforward swap if the original wiring hasn't been buggered about with.

For renting you would also need mains powered interlinked smoke detectors.

Owain

Reply to
spuorgelgoog

The earth connection enables the RCBO to trip even with a lost neutral connection.

Reply to
philipuk

I'm curious why have we ended-up with RCBOs that generally do have an FE connection and RCDs that generally don't?

Reply to
Andy Burns

Well, I've never come across any rented property that has the very latest fuse box/rcd. But that may just be coincidence. I do not go around checking everyones houses I visit for rcds, only that a blind person can safely reach the reset buttons! In any case if you are using an outside applience, you use a plug in rcd and then its as safe as anything can be. Brian

Reply to
Brian-Gaff

In England? I'm not a landlord but several neighbours are and from their chatter I thought even the new regs which apply from October only required a smoke alarm on every floor - ie no need for mains powered or interlinked in a bog standard non-HMO.

Reply to
Robin

John Rumm wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@brightview.co.uk:

Thanks to all for the excellently helpful advice.

If I added an RCD covering the entire house (without replacing the existing fuse box which is already fitted with MCBs, would that constitute a change to the wiring and thus require building control notification?

Would doing this significantly improve the house's safety rating in the eyes of, say, a house-purchaser's surveyor?

I note that in another thread recently, someone seemed alarmed that someone was planning to install an electric shower without RCD protection. That's partly what got me thinking about this issue.

Jim

Reply to
Jim x321x

snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Thanks. I have to admit, that there *is*, arguably an issue with the plastic cover that originally covered all the fuses. The subsequently- installed MCBs stick out to far to allow the old cover to be attached. So I simply left it off. My thinking was that MCBs should probably be in plain view anyway, because one should be able to access them quickly. Also, unenlightened tenenats and/or their guests might not know where the MCbs are located if they were all covered with an opaque plastic cover that's screwed on.

I suppose I could quite easily modify the cover to make it deep enough to cover the MCBs without obstructing free flip-switch operation.

BTW, I am in England, so not bound by regional Scottish regulations.

Jim

Reply to
Jim x321x

John Rumm wrote in news:S8SdnWOCa5G- snipped-for-privacy@brightview.co.uk:

Thanks for the input. You confirm what I thought. In fact, it seems likely to me that more accidents are likely to be caused by a house's power being unexpectedly cut off due to a RCD misdiagnosing a fault - especially at night. Elderly an infirm people suddenly finding themselves walking around in pitch darkness, having to fumble their way to the CU. Surely that would be a dangersous situation for some, no? It would be interesting to know the statistics regarding how many people have suffered injury that way, vs. how many have suffered injury due to a fuse failing to blow, or a MCB failing to trip.

Jim

Reply to
Jim x321x

So a new consumer unit then. OK, thanks.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Hence newer installations having at least two RCDs with circuits split between them, or RCBOs per circuit, so that faults on one circuit affect fewer (or no) other circuits ... rather than being in pitch darkness you could get a bit of light from upstairs reaching downstairs, or use floor/table lights instead of ceiling lights etc.

Reply to
Andy Burns

Indeed - how would you cope with re-wireing a BS3036 style fuse?

Yup that will help.

Reply to
John Rumm

Firstly you don't want a single RCD covering the whole house - that is a practice that was common during the 15th edition, but is deprecated now since it offers no "discrimination" in the event of a fault (i.e. the fault will take out the supply to the whole house, not just the circuit causing the problem). So many circuits on one RCD are also more prone to nuisance tripping in the first place.

Changing a CU is "notifiable", although if done right no one is going to whinge if you don't.

Only if the purchaser is sufficiently clued up. You may find an older CU etc would be commented on during a survey, but only in as much as the surveyor might comment that you could get an electrical report if concerned.

So if your only reason for the change is to make the house more saleable, I would not bother. If however you are planning to carry on living there, then its worth it (IMHO) for other reasons.

Its possible to install a shower safely without one - and prior to the

17th edition it was possible (and not uncommon) to do so. Having said that, its very sensible to include a RCD for a shower, and now the 17th edition mandates it.

For your installation with relatively few circuits, the "nicest" solution would be an "all RCBO" installation. That is one where you use RCBOs (Residual Current Circuit breaker with Overload protection) - i.e. a combined MCB and RCD in one. That way you get the best of both worlds RCD protection on every circuit, but also perfect discrimination - a RCD trip will only deactivate the circuit with the fault and leave the rest untouched.

Reply to
John Rumm

This is why the "whole house" RCD setup is now no longer permitted. Trips and falls in the house are more likely to injure people than electric shocks in the first place.

RCDs (in this scenario) are primarily about shock protection from what used to be called "direct contact" (now "basic protection") - i.e. you come into contact with something that is supposed to be live, but you are not normally supposed to be able to touch it (e.g. a cut flex on the mower). MCBs and Fuses offer almost *no* direct contact protection since the current that flows through you is insufficient to trip a MCB or blow a fuse - but still plenty to injure or kill you.

Fuses and MCBs only offer shock protection in "indirect contact" or "fault protection" scenarios - i.e. preventing shocks from coming into contact with metalwork that should *not* be live normally, but has become so as a result of a fault. (since said metal work should be earthed, that creates a path for a large fault current to flow, which in turn with de-energise the circuit due to operation of the MCB/fuse.

Reply to
John Rumm

You can get plug in MCBs for old Wylex style boxes, but not plug in RCBOs, since a RCBO needs the neutral to pass through it as well as the live, and there is no access to that from the socket on the fusebox.

Reply to
John Rumm

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