I'm sure we've done this to death before but who decides what is vermin and
Isn't just a selfish "it conveniences me"?
In my book anyone who causes unnecessary pain, suffering or death to
another creature is "vermin".
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:20:29 BST, Bob Martin wrote:
To some extent it's laid down in law but not very well. A very quick
google finds this Hansard entry:
8 Oct 2003 : Column WA60
Lord Selsdon asked Her Majesty's Government:
Which mammals and other animals are classified as
Lord Whitty: There is no definition of the term "vermin" in UK law.
In such a situation the Oxford Dictionary definition should be
The Oxford Dictionary defines "vermin" as "Animals of a noxious or
objectionable kind. Originally applied to reptiles, stealthy, or
slinky animals, and various wild beasts; now, excluding in US and
Australia, almost entirely restricted to those animals or birds which
prey upon preserved game . . ."
The Small Ground Vermin Traps Order 1958 and the various Spring Traps
Approval Orders, refer to "small ground vermin". Neither the orders
nor the Pests Act 1954, under which they are made, define this term
or provide an exclusive list of species. However, the following
animals are listed under various orders: moles, grey squirrels,
rabbits, mink, stoats, weasels, rabbits, rats, and mice.
Traps approved under the Spring Traps Approval Order 1995 do not
apply to small ground vermin listed in Schedules 5 and 6 to the
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. This means that red squirrels,
dormice, water voles, shrews, hedgehogs, polecats and a number of
other species are excluded.
You are a vegan? 'cause you can't be sure that the animals used for
the production of meat or diary products have never suffered. Or is
squirrel fur journal anyone? ;)
I'm toying with the idea of annexing off the loft and creating a 'box' for
the fella, as was suggested earlier in this thread and I also considered at
the outset, so it was nice to know that 'another' had the same musings and
rendered me sane, at least partially :)
I have heard from a friend who ended up exterminating a treerat in his loft
after attempts to gently remove it nearly ended up with him being facially
disfigured... a chainsaw mask and welders gloves seem sensible when faced
with a cornered squirrel, on all fours, in a tight space
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
Yeah, that makes sense.
I was going to probe around with a long batten while my son watched
the exit point for the bugger to vacate... then up into the loft to
check for babies and then, while he's out, put in the box or cap off
the soffits to keep him out... still pondering how much time to spend
in cramped loft :) Especially if there are no little ones and he can
relocate in these warmer months.
FWIW: I remember someone telling me (when I first discussed the cable
chewing incident in the pub) that using LowSmoke cable discourages
rodents from eating through it because it doesn't use the same kind of
oils used in its production as normal cable insulation, which they
like to chomp on.
A quick google to quantify this doesn't return much and the other
theory is that they use the cable as a "teething ring". Especially the
young 'uns which would explain why only the length of cable, between
the joists, in front of the nest was stripped!?
Google did however, also throw up this...
which makes me a little happier about my own small problem and less
inclined to exterminate the sod!
There is no such thing as a vegan (only people that think they are vegans)..
look at the stuff made from animal stuff and ask how they can avoid it..
tallow in fabric softeners rules out any shop bought cloths.
cattle hooves in fire fighting foam rules out air transport of anything they
use (like computer bits to read this post).
and that's just the start.
end of veganism in the UK.
I guess people whose livelihood is/was affected by the activities of
other creatures. Now that we mostly live remotely from any aspect of
food production other views can flourish.
Umm.. I suppose mice sharing your breakfast cereals or Squirrels
potentially destroying the cables in the loft can be a personal choice.
However, when it comes to producing and storing food I'm happy with the
OK on unnecessary pain/suffering but death? How many ants do you
unwittingly kill crossing your lawn? Do you stop eating rice because of
the creatures killed in production?
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 11:44:28 +0000, Dean Heighington wrote:
Get some chavvy squirrels to move in right next door to him and thusly
make his life so intolerable that he moves all by himself? Then shoot the
chavvy squirrels for the low-life waster scum that they are, and feel
good that you've done the squirrel world a favour.
Heh heh... On a bit of a low ebb at the moment... Maybe cos I turned 40
last week, but some of the responses to this thread have given me reason
to have a good chuckle - much to the wife's disdain, during what should be
a sombre period in our lives!
She's giving me that "what do I have to laugh about look"
What else are opposable thumbs for? Get to me at
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